“Use the Equity, Not the Gut” Where the Data Says Your Car Will Sell Next | Yolanda Biswah, President of Canadian Black Book (CBB)
How should Canadian dealers REALLY be using data to price, appraise, and move inventory in 2025?
In this episode of The Dealer Playbook, Michael sits down with Yolanda Biswah, President of Canadian Black Book (CBB), the data backbone behind used vehicle valuations and residual forecasts for OEMs, lenders, and retailers across the country.
With 65+ years of market data at her fingertips, Yolanda breaks down how Canadian Black Book reads the market, what’s really happening with wholesale and retail values, and how dealers can use valuations more strategically instead of just “checking a number.”
We get into:
How CBB blends wholesale auction data, upstream OEM/lender data, and retail listing data to forecast values
Key differences between the Canadian and U.S. wholesale markets (and why Canada moves more gradually)
How to use residual value forecasts to build better remarketing and equity-mining plans
Practical ways to reduce pain around aging units using data instead of gut feel
Why consumer confidence, supply & demand, and economic signals matter for your next 90 days of inventory decisions
How Canadian dealers can tighten the gap between consumer-facing trade tools and in-store appraisals
(Timestamps)
If you’re a dealer principal, GM, used car manager, or lender trying to make smarter decisions with every unit on the lot, this conversation will change how you think about values, equity, and remarketing.
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Episode Transcript
(Preview Intro)
0:00
What do we do, Yolanda, to minimize the disparity between what a customer sees and maybe expects and what might actually happen once they drive onto the lot and and get a an appraisal on their trade?
I think it's the, the transparency and language you use to, you know, to describe the process to consumers, because every consumer, including myself, think my car is clean.
0:25
And trust me, my car is not clean right now, but I do think it's an extra clean.
And I think that's a big part of disparity.
And also, you know, as a consumer, we don't recognize like certain, I guess with, I say, scratches and dents in our car and what they're really worth.
And so there is this perception that when you go into a dealer, you're automatically going to be told your car is worth less.
0:44
For the general consumer that might be tuning in because they're intrigued, what are these insiders talk about?
I know a question they're asking is does it make a difference if there's a dirty diaper in the back of my car?
Absolutely….
(Intro)
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1:14
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2:21
(Episode Begins)
Yolanda Biswah the President of Canadian Black Book, Canada's leading provider of used vehicle valuations and residual value forecasts.
She joined CBB in 2015, Rose through sales and customer experience leadership, which we're going to have to dig into a little bit, including VP of Sales and SVP slash GM and was promoted to President in June 2023.
2:45
Under her leadership, CBB continues to publish its annual Best Residual Value awards, a bellwether for long term asset performance used by OEMs, lenders and retailers across the country.
This was a frequent industry voice on data-driven decision making, talent development and market dynamics.
3:04
Yolanda, thanks so much for joining me on the Dealer Playbook.
You're welcome.
Thank you for having me.
I'm wanting to go in so many different directions because there's things just in your bio I'm like I need to know about, especially because I think they directly apply to, you know, topics.
3:20
We talk about the impact of customer experience, the the impact on customer experience for buying decisions on retention, value propositions, unique placements in the market.
I mean, there's so many things.
3:36
But then there's also see, I'm torn already.
There's also the data side of this.
I'm like from your vantage point, maybe we'll start here.
Your vantage point is president of CBB.
I mean, you are seeing so much data.
You have access to so much data.
3:52
For 65 years, absolutely. 65 years of data.
OK.
So just a little data pool.
What are you looking at specifically that kind of gives you an indication of where the market's headed?
Yeah, absolutely.
4:09
So we look at multiple different things.
So you know the the base or the foundation of Canadian Block book is the wholesale market.
So which is the wholesale data that comes through auctions and we get data from Canadian auctions across Canada and also we get upstream data from OEM partners, captives, different lenders, fleet companies as well.
4:32
That goes into our, you know, our proprietary methodology to determine that determines a wholesale value.
But more importantly, what changed during COVID is when there was no auction data or no upstream data, we had to pivot and we started looking at the retail market.
4:50
And the retail market data has really become a big part of how we are able to mirror the two track the trend of the wholesale market against retail market data.
And specifically, when we say retail market data, we're talking about, you know, data or retail listings data that's put out in the market by dealers, not private consumers, but by dealers and what they are like, what they're listing out in their websites.
5:14
What does, what does that trend look like?
Because, you know, they also dealers have a, a very, they're very good at forecasting where they think that they're the values of their cars are going to be as well in their own.
So, so yeah.
And we also look at economic data.
I have a team of economics majors and graduates we who keep track of the Canadian economy, where the prediction is going.
5:38
What are companies like Venturating the same?
And we have like literally daily meetings to talk about the economy, which is a big part of what we're doing in automotive that's impacting everything that we do.
I think it's probably the number one concern for everyone in automotive because that's really changed a lot.
5:56
Like we're not able to forecast long term as we used to.
Now it's very short term forecasting because we have to pivot all the time based on things that are changing.
So yeah, I hope I answered that question, but.
Yeah, yeah, you definitely did.
And you've got me thinking about, I mean, obviously growing up in Canada, Canada is an, I don't have better words.
6:20
It's like an international throughput for so many different things.
Every time I talk to somebody in Canada, they are definitely looking at the Canadian market, but they have a very keen eye on European markets, on the US market.
When you look at at Canadian data, in particular wholesale data, what contrasts or similarities are you seeing to to South of the border?
6:41
I would say probably there's you know, in terms of how values are changing in regards to whether the wholesale market is going up or going down.
There are similarities, but our timelines are very different and Canada is not as like our progression is gradual.
6:58
You don't see huge steeps as you do in the US.
We're much more gradual, much more stable market in terms of valuing values, you know, going down or going up.
There's much more of a trend to that.
Whereas in the US sometimes you see like a huge fall and there are huge, you know, trend going up.
7:14
Whereas in our market we don't see that.
And I think that's that's the difference.
But in terms of similarity it it's pretty much follows the same curve, but we're slower behind the question.
I wonder is that is it just differences in consumer sentiment?
7:31
Is it financial like, is it strictly financial based?
Is it population based?
Like what do you think some of the contributing factors to why Canada can kind of move through it a little bit more?
People are not as reactive, but that's just my opinion.
7:47
I don't.
I'm OK with an opinion.
I'm OK with an opinion.
We're not as reactive in terms of, of in, in harsh pivots and changes.
Canadian consumers are cautious.
I think that, you know, if you talk about consumer experience, we know that, you know, our Canadians are not online put into our credit information all over the place looking for if they're approved for credit, right.
8:10
It's still something that companies struggle with.
I hear about it all the time, like, you know, how do we get consumers to complete a credit process online?
Whereas, you know, so important they do this very regularly.
It's a standard practice.
So we're a little bit more, I think cautious.
You see that even with, you know, when you saw inventory was down, a new car inventory was down, convenience were holding on to their car.
8:31
They were taking a longer time to, you know, to go out and, and look for a new car or sell their current car or whether or not they decide to repair to keep it longer.
You're just, I think more strategic in our decision making and our spending.
You know, we hear all the time that we're, we have huge amount of credits, but I think we choose wisely at how we use those credits, right.
8:53
I think it's, you know, my opinion, but you know.
It is.
True, yeah.
It is true.
I mean, I think in in my 39 years living in Canada, I can't remember and I'm sure it happened, but I just can't remember a single time somebody where where my phone was just getting blown up from people who had gotten my information from some sort of credit app that I had filled out that now all of a sudden in the 4 1/2 years that I've lived in Texas, I've thought about changing my phone number at least seven times a day.
9:32
Yeah, it's very.
And I think that is the proof point to what you're saying, which is you're right.
Like I even know moving here people are very quick to put their personal kind of secure information into any website that promises to give them some sort of promise that and then what they should be promising.
9:50
The best promise is we will call you 4000 times a day and sell your information.
That would be a promise they could all deliver on.
Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah, I want to talk a little bit about this as it pertains to how how the economy moves and or the economy of automotive moves.
10:08
One of the things that CBB does is shows residual values, right?
How should dealers use the CBB residuals to set day one price, day 15 adjustments, so on and so forth?
Walk us through the cadence that you find works as a dealer's considering how to price units.
10:29
Well, I don't really want to comment on how they should price unit, but I think how you use the forecast values to determine you know what that equity of that that car is gonna be as you price and sell a vehicle, right?
If you know it's a brand that retains equity, then I think your remarketing plan needs to have shorted timelines, right?
10:50
In terms of like bringing that client back Cuz is it?
I've been going to the same dealership probably for the last 12 or 15.
Years.
And part of it is because of the relationship you build a dealerships and I think that and dealer groups, which I think have that advantage now because you have multiple different brands within that group.
11:08
And I think you cultivate that relationship with that consumer and dependent on the brand, dependent on the model and dependent on the equity that that car is going to have, you decide what that remarketing plan would look like for that consumer for, you know, to bring them back, get them into a newer vehicle.
11:24
And that's how you keep, you know, the circle of light going right within that consumer vehicle purchase and process and also circle of life within their relationship with your dealership and your dealer group, right?
I think that's something that in Canada I think that we can improve upon.
11:41
You know, I have a lot of family in the US and when I go out to visit them, they talk about when they go into a dealership to to just do tire change, but they're immediately like, you know, up sold into a newer car.
And I've gone in many, many service center and not up sold, you know, been up sold a newer car.
12:00
And I think it's one of the things that dealers, you know, and I don't want to be the one to tell them how to run their business can do better.
And a part of that is using the forecast, you know, residual value forecast to say, Hey, you know, this specific brand holds the value long term.
This person is 2 year in two years into the term, this car has got equity.
12:19
Why don't I just, you know, go in and say, Hey, how would you like to to, you know, what's your next car purchase?
What do you, what do you thinking of buying or do you want to get a newer brand, a newer, newer model to what you have is, you know, refresh and upgrade it.
Do you want to test drive it?
I think that's how you use the residual value processing your decision making and I do think there's a lot of opportunities in that.
12:44
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Listen, before we hop back into this episode, I know you know me as the host of the Dealer Playbook, but did you also know that I'm the CEO of Flex Dealer, an agency that's helping dealers capture better quality leads from local SEO and hyper targeted ads that convert.
13:01
So if you want to sell more cars and finally have a partner that's in it with you that doesn't suck, visit flexdealer.com.
Let's hop back into this episode.
You've got my brain spinning.
I I immediately go from there to I think what's what's powering a lot of the market.
13:20
I mean, even just still the spill off from supply chain shortages where a lot of franchise dealers have become essentially used car dealers, right?
Stocking up as many used vehicles as possible, which brings me from appraisal to or sorry, residual appraisals to the trade in lane.
13:42
From your vantage point, what kind of what, what recommendations?
Because I know CBB is consumer facing as well, right?
I can go to the, the CBB website.
I can look up, you know, and, and get all the information about my vehicle and have an idea.
What do we, what do we do, Yolanda, to minimize the disparity between what a customer sees and maybe expects and what might actually happen once they drive onto the lot and and get a an appraisal on their trade?
14:10
You know I see multiple trading solutions out there and then when I say previous solutions I mean widgets in in ulcer to other.
Gizmos, Yeah.
I, I think it's the, the transparency and language you use to, you know, to describe the process to consumers, because every consumer, including myself think my car is clean.
14:31
And trust me, my car is not clean right now, but I do think it's an extra clean.
And I think that's a big part of disparity.
And also, you know, as a consumer, we don't recognize like certain, I guess with, I say scratches and dents in our car and what they're really worth.
And so there is this perception that when you go into a dealer, you're automatically going to be told your car is worth less.
14:51
But in my experience, the most part dealing with my, this is my own scientific, you know, analysis of my family, they're always wrong.
And, and the majority of time dealers are right because I think that perception that dealers are always trying to steal the trade, I think that's gone.
15:07
I don't think that's there anymore.
I think that dealers do want to have relationships with consumers that are that are coming back and forth and also that consumers are going to recommend their friends and family to come to their dealerships because that's how most dealerships within your community operate.
I live in Durham, you know, where you have a certain German brand and almost everyone in that region has, you know, that that brand because they they form relationships with the dealership partners within that region.
15:34
And I think that dealers have become more wiser, much better at that, at honing our relationship and making that relationship better.
And I think that we just have to make sure that consumers understand that in that trading process that, you know, that they're going to evaluate your car and let you know what was actually worth.
15:53
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, it goes back to what you were just saying earlier about the relationship that that fosters loyalty.
I mean, a lot of us are still trying to wrap our head around the fact that the best marketing we can do is provide a good, honest, transparent and open commutative buying process the first time.
16:10
Because like you just mentioned, Yolanda, you're, you're going to go home, you're going to share the experience you had because you're excited about it and the vehicle you bought.
And they're going to now be intrigued, whoever they are, and they're going to want to turn around and come to the dealership in it.
And it's your point there.
16:26
There's so many different touch points.
It's not just the initial transaction, it's how I'm being dealt with in service.
That's how I'm being dealt with when I want to trade in.
Yeah, and it's taking the time with consumers like in that when you take your trade in it before, you know, I remember like 10 or 15 years ago, you would just be told, oh, this is what your car is worth.
16:44
You know, what you got in the website is incorrect.
Now the relationships that I've seen and experiences, like they walk you around your car and say, well, did you see this or did you notice this, that you got a chip in the window and you know, things like that.
And I think but that is made foster in a relationship better because now you're able to really show the consumer here is why your value is different than what my value is, right?
17:07
Rather than just say, oh, what you got on the website is wrong, you know, here is what the correct value is.
This consumers is more information.
We all know that social media, it's all about information, right?
Yeah.
For for the general consumer that might be tuning in because they're intrigued, what are these?
17:23
What are these insiders talk about?
I know a question they're asking is, does it make a difference if there's a dirty diaper in the back of my car when I bring it in for a trade?
Are they going to care?
Because I'll tell you, back in the day when I was doing merchandising for dealerships, I can't tell you how much garbage was in some of these cars.
17:44
Is that going to impact the the number you think or could it potentially impact should the consumer be thinking about getting their car vacuumed and detailed before they bring it to the dealership?
Absolutely.
I think you shouldn't be getting a detail or cleaned as you know, you shouldn't have garbage in your car because I think that adds to, you know, is this does this car have a a smell that's not necessary to get a go away, right?
18:10
It's a very easy one.
They're like, look, we're going to market it as a family vehicle, but we didn't need to smell that.
It's a family, yeah.
We don't need to smell the other family.
I love it.
I, I'm curious about this, this, this seems to be a conversation I hear a lot about as, as we're going around to dealerships, it's, you know, aging policies.
18:30
And when I have aged units on my lot that aren't moving for whatever the reason might be, how can I get out of these units and in a way that's not completely destroying my finances?
People are always concerned about it and, and rightfully so.
18:48
What do you see from your, you know, perhaps best practices or ideas that you've seen work well for dealers that can, I, dare I say, equitably move out of aged units?
Yeah, absolutely.
It's data.
19:03
Then you have to, I, I think they have to have, they have to have view and access to data that tells them like, you know, you can, you can dispose of this specific vehicle in, you know, in Thunder Bay because there is, you know, there is a need for Honda Civics in Thunder Bay, right?
19:21
I think that, you know that you can't just think just within Ontario or within the region or you have to expand across Canada on how you can dispose of vehicles, you know, and, and utilize that data to do that.
I think that, you know, no one wants to take a loss.
No one wants to have to, you know, lower pricing just to get get rid of a vehicle.
19:40
They want to be able to maximize that.
I just think it's data and utilize and there are lots of data partners out there that do things separate from Canadian Black book that shows you how to best remarket your vehicle in other provinces or other regions.
And I think those are some really good tools.
19:56
Yeah, quick sidebar here before we forget.
For those of you that are listening or watching, I need you to drop me a comment.
Have you ever heard of a different place in the world that has a more bad name than Thunder Bay?
20:13
Exactly.
Talk about like that is.
I mean, I remember about Thunder Bay my whole life, but for some reason, Yolanda, you just said it.
And I'm like, that is a wicked name for a place.
Where?
Are you from Thunder Bay?
You know, I grew up in Vernon.
20:31
Yeah.
I grew up in Vernon as like Thunder Bay talk about it.
I love I love it.
You bring it back to the data.
My question is this, for someone such as yourself that has access to seemingly infinite amounts of data from over 65 years, how do you then avoid or, I won't say avoid but but mitigate the potential for analysis paralysis?
20:55
You know I'm not the right person to answer this question cuz I I would say the more data is the better.
More analysis is the better.
Data junk.
I think if you're not making the decision from the analysis that you're doing that you're definitely in the paralysis.
You have to be making decisions about the data.
21:12
And back to my question, when I back to the previous question where we talked about, you know, having data that shows you how to remarket, that's part of what we do with our our retail data.
We have that information that helps dealers tell you like we're a cars that we're a specific because solid, but you have to be able to make decisions in regards to the analysis you're doing.
21:30
And sometimes we work with clients who are like, well, I wanna see another analysis and I wanna see another analysis and I wanna see another analysis, right.
I think that you at some point you have to determine how many analysis you need to do to make a decision.
Cuz that's where the paralysis considers my opinion.
21:47
Yep.
That's great.
I think you are the right person to answer that question.
I think that was great.
As we kind of start winding into the the last parts of the questions I have here 90 day forecast moves, things are changing interest rates and there's some you know different regulations.
22:04
So my questions are like if, if rates ease or incentives spend ticks up, which leading valuation indicators blink first?
Is it segment days, supplies at auction, conversions, MMR deltas?
22:22
Like what?
What are you looking at to say, OK, here's here's here's the data I'm paying attention to to give me an understanding of a 90 day window.
Supply and demand always is the data we're looking at.
And I think when you talk about 90 day forecast, although we do do that, we look at it short term because it is changing and because right now we're in the current environment where two or one word can literally shift the market, shift consumer behavior and we haven't seen that happen.
22:54
We thought that we were over that during COVID and we're back in, I don't know if back in, but we're in this new economic era of where where things change so drastically.
So part of what we had to change with our team is how they forecast.
We do it on a daily basis and not that we're forecasting the values every day.
23:12
We have to look at it every day because it changes so drastically.
And if we don't even change, then all of a sudden we can be on the downturn or severely on the outsa upturn of where it should be.
So I would say we have you have to look at every area, you have to look at every data, you have to look at every aspect of what goes into decision making in terms of valuation process.
23:36
You know, looking at economic data, looking at, you know, auctions, looking at consumer behavior, consumable confidence is a is a big part of what we do right now because that's in the Canadian market.
That's very talent of how consumers are spending, especially going into Q4 where you're going into the holiday season, right.
23:55
And you know, typically, you know, consumers will tend to be looking for new vehicles and you know, you see a lot of new vehicles coming out now.
You know, what does that confidence look like?
What does that mean for new car sales?
Yeah, all, all of that is what we talk about in a daily basis here to.
24:13
To be a family on the wall, not.
About it, sorry.
To be A, to be a family on the wall, this is so valuable.
I mean, we need to be paying attention to it.
Obviously, I have an affinity for inventory data and data workflows and, and you know, we're, we're building, you know, some, some solutions or trying to build some solutions on the merchandising side in particular.
24:36
So I I think a lot, a lot about this stuff for those that are listening and watching.
I mean, guys, we got to be paying attention to, like Yolanda just said, the market buying sentiments, supply and demand.
We have enough data that we don't need to be making too many visceral.
24:55
Oh, I but I feel like I need a maroon camera.
We know.
You know.
We know what people are buying and I think, you know, the data can actually alleviate a lot of the pressure that we might be feeling and get rid of some of those visceral feelings that we have.
25:14
Yolanda, this has been a delight.
How can those listening and watching connect with you?
They can connect with me on LinkedIn.
I have, I'm not probably one of the few people to have my phone number visible on LinkedIn, but I have nothing to hide.
That's what I tell anyone.
You can send me a LinkedIn and I will be happy to, to connect with you.
25:32
So I love, I love connecting with people.
I think one of the important message for Canadian Black Book on my team is we always want to get feedback.
Like, you know, we hear our volleys are too high, our volleys are too low.
And that's when we know we're right.
But if we hear it's only one way, then we know we have a problem.
But we like to get feedback because we are still, we're still a team of, of people who are actually impacting valuations and they want to know what they're doing, if it's to be done correctly or not.
25:59
And they like to hear feedback so anyone can reach out.
To.
Me, thank you for this opportunity.
Yeah.
Thank you so much for joining me on the Dealer Playbook.
Thank you.
(Outro) Hey, thanks for listening to the Dealer Playbook Podcast. If you enjoyed tuning in, please subscribe, share and hit that like button. You can also join us and the DPB community on social media. Check back next week for a new Dealer Playbook episode. Thanks so much for joining.
