“Extremes Get Clicks”: What 3,000 Pros Just Told Us About AI vs. Google | Marcus Sheridan, Author of Endless Customers | Ep. 684
AI vs. Google isn’t theoretical anymore; your buyers are already switching how they search.
In this episode, Marcus Sheridan (author of They Ask, You Answer and Endless Customers) shares fresh data from ~3,000 pros on how often they now use ChatGPT instead of Google, what that means for SEO, content, and lead gen, and how car dealerships can pivot now to stay discoverable.
You’ll learn:
Why “extremes get clicks” (and how to win with balanced, trust-first content)
The real timeline for AI in customer service (and why “faster, friction-free” always wins)
What “legacy Google is dying” actually means (and what still works today)
A pragmatic playbook to future-proof dealership SEO with AI search behavior in mind
The 4 pillars from Endless Customers to become the most known and trusted brand in your market
Timestamps
00:00 Intro
00:04 The Rise of Chat GPT
00:39 The Value of Human Connection
02:14 Introducing Marcus Sheridan
03:21 Why extremes go viral (and why nuance converts)
09:20 The Future of SEO and AI
20:02 Authenticity and Performance
31:21 The Concept of Agency
32:08 Identity and Belonging
39:04 The Future of SEO and AI
44:55 The Power of Adaptation
51:10 The Middle Ground Perspective
57:58 Endless Customers and AI
01:00:40 Conclusion and Call to Action
Giveaway: We’re gifting 10 copies of Endless Customers. Rate the show on Apple/Spotify, screenshot it, and email michael@thedealerplaybook.com. First 10 in the inbox win.
Who this is episode for: Car dealership owners, GMs, marketing leaders, BDC, fixed ops, and anyone responsible for traffic, leads, and CSI.
Episode Brought To You By FlexDealer
Need Better Quality Leads? FLX helps car dealers generate better quality leads through localized organic search and highly-targeted digital ads that convert. Not only that, they work tirelessly to ensure car dealers integrate marketing and operations for a robust and functional growth strategy.
Watch The Full Episode
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Episode Transcript
(Preview Intro)
0:00
I was 18 days on the road.
I spoke at 9 different events.
I told every single audience member this question.
Raise your hand if you're using ChatGPT as your preferred means of search or getting answers today over Google. 50% of the audience of these 3000 people raise their hand for ChatGPT.
0:20
Now where do you think this number is going to go?
How do you reconcile that against authenticity, right and transparency?
Is there an argument to be said then of if I I didn't personally create the work, AI assisted me and or in some cases did it all without my intervention at some point that it's no longer authentic?
0:39
Again, and let me stress, it is very almost politically correct to say that everything comes back to a human connection.
I don't really think that's true.
Let me explain…..
(Intro)
One of the things that I enjoy most about producing the Dealer Playbook is hearing from you, the messages that I get of people who are getting so much value out of the podcast, applying it to their day-to-day workflows and finding a thriving career right here in the retail auto industry.
1:07
It means the world to me.
And you know, one of the ways that we make doing this possible is through my agency, Flex Dealer.
And of course, in the spirit of providing value, I think this is a perfect time to head over to triplew.flexdealer.com to show even further support for you, my beloved DPB gang.
1:25
Right now, if you go to my website, flexdealer.com, you can get a full free PDF of my #1 best selling book, Don't Wait Dominate.
And the reason I think it's so special is that a lot of the topics that are discussed in this book are even more relevant today than ever with this surgeon, popularized AI and people wondering, well, what can I do next?
1:47
How can I have a competitive advantage?
Well, that's all here in this book.
And so I'd love to be able to offer you a free copy of this if you go to flexdealer.com.
It would mean the world to me because that is how we continue to produce this show for you.
2:14
(Episode Begins)
Marcus Sheridan is one of the most respected voices in modern sales and marketing as the author of They Ask You Answer and Endless Customers.
Which by the way, you need to stay to the end of this episode because I'm going to tell you how you can get a copy of this for free.
He has helped thousands of brands and business leaders build trust through transparency and communication.
2:35
His work challenges how companies sell in the digital era and prepares them to thrive in an AI driven world.
I am so excited to have you back on the show, Marcus.
Thanks for joining me.
Yeah, brother.
It is just a joy to be with you.
2:51
We haven't done this probably I'm guessing at least in three or four years, right?
In a while, yeah.
At least that.
At least that.
Glad we can run it back man.
You, I want to just take, get a get a one way ticket sometimes into your brain because some of the things that you post, I'm like, huh, like you, you have so many things that you post online that I that are just scroll stoppers for me, you know, and, and I want to read one of them because it's going to feed into the conversation today.
3:21
You, you actually posted this morning on LinkedIn, which by the way, gang, if you are not following Marcus Sheridan on LinkedIn, you absolutely must.
You say, quick tip, don't fall for the AI haters and don't fall for the zealots either.
3:37
The haters will tell you it's all hype, no real progress, no real use cases, no real anything.
The zealots will tell you it's perfect utopia without jobs in five years, which I I my algorithm is full of that.
Both get loud online because as well as you well know, extremes get clicks.
3:55
And for the most people, once they start getting clicks, they can't seem to turn back the dial.
So that explains exactly why I keep seeing it.
The attention is simply too addictive.
Meanwhile, nuance doesn't trend.
Balance doesn't go viral.
Just look at people in politics.
Same deal.
4:10
But here's what I know to be true.
You say AI is incredibly useful, powerful, and life changing when used correctly.
AI is incredibly frustrating, often unreliable, and generally misunderstood.
Both things can be true.
You're it seems like you're advocating for there.
4:25
There's a middle ground here and and that middle ground is actually what we need to be paying attention to.
Yeah, I mean, like at A, at a macro level, I think the middle ground has become almost frowned upon in society, which is sad to me.
4:45
And there's this whole problem with if you're not with us, you're against us.
Like, no, no, no, no, no, no.
Just because I'm not with you 1% of the time or 5% of the time or 10% of the time doesn't mean I'm not with you.
5:04
Like, get a grip.
But we have become so obsessed with differences that we have forgotten that were much, much more similar.
And if you, if you look at the world of AI and if you look at the world of technology right now, you once again have the extremes that are forming on both ends.
5:24
Again, it really mimics what happens in the world politically speaking.
The fringes make the most noise because they're able to speak often times in the most absolute of way, right.
And there can, they can be full of headlines because again, they're on the fringe.
5:44
And they're like, once you hit the fringe, it's like, I want to be on the fringe all the time because the fringe gets the click.
And, you know, and then next thing is, you know, you're, you're, you know, you're suddenly in a debate with the president of France as to whether or not his wife is a woman.
6:01
I mean, this is what happens.
This is what happens dude.
Candace Owens just tuned into this podcast.
Like come on now.
So my, you know, my point is like, it's OK, it's OK for you to say.
6:21
I think AI is life changing.
I think it's going to affect just almost every facet of the world in the future and it's going to take some time and it's got a lot of issues and it's going slower than many people would say like it should be going.
6:49
And we're probably not going to have super intelligence in the next two years.
It's probably not going to happen.
It's like, OK, it's OK.
But you can't sit there and, and, and, and watch away MO go by, you know, as you're walking down the streets of Phoenix and say everything's just like it's always been.
7:05
No way, man.
I mean, don't deny the thing that's happening in front of your face.
It is wild, though, how quickly we become so accustomed to something that we don't appreciate.
It's called the law of familiarity.
7:20
And it's been around forever.
It's like people, people, you know, have quickly become so familiar with the Internet.
It's like we don't appreciate the Internet anymore.
It's like, and then you have chats, GBT, it's like, oh, well, I can do that.
I was like, that's not a big deal.
No, it's a big freaking deal.
7:36
This is incredible progress that we've experienced in a very, very short period of time.
So even though the futurists are for the most part all wrong, myself included, there's a lot of truth in it.
Yeah, you, you, you've talked a lot like if I were to take some of the the, the themes of what you're advocating for, speaking about, cautioning against or cautioning for it's, it's, yeah.
8:11
I mean, you know, going back to where you started, there was the, the pool business, you used SEO best practices, you know, in that sense, you, you were very current with that, that lasted a long time.
Now you're advocating for like, Hey, don't ignore what's happening here and, and the impact of it, which is kind of created this, this advocacy for there is a definite tipping point to to your point, like my toaster makes recommendations, you know, my, my blender is making recommendations on how I want, you know.
8:42
Well, look, look at this.
All right?
I just got off of.
I was 18 days on the road.
I spoke at 9 different events.
I had roughly 3000 audience members.
Over the course of this 18 day stretch, I told every single audience member this question.
9:00
Raise your hand if you're using Chachi BT as your preferred means of search or getting answers today over Google. 50% of the audience of these 3000 people raise their hand for ChatGPT.
9:17
Now, where do you think this number's going to go?
It's wild though, Michael, if there's still SEO professionals out there that are acting like nothing's happening, like this isn't going to affect them.
I spoke at A at a home improvement conference the other day and apparently there was a there's this one gal in the back that was their head of SEO.
9:40
And I just said Google legacy Google is going to die.
We don't know when it's going to die, but we know it's dying because we know every single day more and more people are moving over from traditional Google to AI based search.
9:55
And we know that's not it's not going to stop and that the future is not going to be people clicking on a bunch of blue links on a screen.
It's going to be getting answers faster.
That's where we're headed as humans.
I actually don't think that's a very smart take.
I think it's very, very obvious.
10:11
If you just look at humans, we run away from friction, we go to faster.
Friction free is what we're trying to achieve always as humans.
That's the way that we're wired.
So I don't think that's a I don't think that's an extraordinarily intelligent take, But my my chief of staff was there with me at this event and she was just happened to talk to this lady, this SEO lady after the fact.
10:38
She didn't know she was my chief of staff and and she says to my chief says, like, what do you think?
I can't.
I did.
I didn't like this guy at all.
He said Google was going to die.
And what's here's what's funny too, is people hear what they want to hear, right?
Because what I said was Google itself, although yes, eventually they're going to die because all companies die eventually.
10:59
But Google itself may end up winning the war that is AI.
But in terms of legacy search, blue links, that's not the future.
This is also why you talk to businesses left, right and front and center.
11:17
They're saying I'm spending more on paid ads than I've ever spent.
And I'm seeing less results than I've ever seen.
Cost per click, cost per lead, cost per like acquisition customer goes up every single year the last five years.
11:33
So, you know, this is like, we can't ignore these things.
They're obvious.
Doesn't mean that SEO doesn't matter today.
It just means it's dying.
It can matter and it can be dying.
Both can be true.
And that's the thing I'm trying to help people understand is have a little bit of balance in your thought and your reasoning.
11:54
Don't be so freaking married to what you used to believe that you can't change.
Like I wrote this book called They ask you Answer it.
It's helped, like, hundreds of thousands of companies now become more known and trusted through content.
12:10
And I talk all about blogging and content marketing and websites.
And I am the guy now saying that you can't continue to do everything you read in that book and expect to get extraordinary results.
You've got to pivot.
You've got to evolve with the market.
12:26
The market doesn't wait for us to say, yeah, but I put my stake in the ground on this.
Sure, that's fine.
OK, So you put your stake in the ground, pull it out, move your dank stake.
Right.
It's this is an interesting thing I've been thinking about.
12:41
I don't know if it's a fully reconciled thought process, but it makes me think, well, as long as there are human beings on this planet that have hearts in their chests at some point, the the, the point of all of this content AI, whatever is going to be to speed up human interaction.
13:01
Because that's the thing that when I really think about it, I crave, you know, I look at the pandemic, our kid, the school shut down in Canada, the kids do Zoom school.
I would have never guessed in a million years that at some point there would be a, there was a breaking point for college or for, for high school students that were like, I just want to be in a room with another human being.
13:20
And I think about that in terms of business.
Well, why am I doing any of this?
Why am I thinking about it?
Why do I want to be relevant?
Why do I want to do these things?
Well, because at at some point, especially with AI, perhaps it's going to speed up human interaction.
And in that interaction there's trust, and in trust there's transaction and relationship and all these sorts of things.
13:41
What's your take?
Well, this is a really interesting subject.
Again, I let me, let me stress, it is very almost politically correct to say that everything comes back to a human connection.
I don't really think that's true.
13:59
Let me explain.
I was talking to my daughter the other day.
She's 25 years old and she says to me, Dad, I would prefer when it comes to customer service, I'd prefer to work with AI over a human.
14:16
And I said, OK, tell me about that.
Of course I'm not going to.
I'm, I have a very curious mind.
People could come up to me and they could say, you know, the earth is flat and I've got proof and I would say tell me all about it.
But that's literally what I would say because I love to hear how people think and how they, you know, reason.
14:37
She says the biggest reason is I do not feel judged by AI when I ask you questions.
Now see, this is the part that people I misunderstand.
14:56
I have people consistent because I teach on AI a lot and they'll say I would always rather work with a human and I will just pose a simple question.
So if you had a choice and you could work with a human and it took you 30 minutes to get the answer, and you could work with AI and it took you 30 seconds to get the answer, which would you choose?
15:23
Right.
Yeah, 30 seconds.
Now that's that's 99 out of 100 are going to say I want it faster, 30 seconds.
Now, how about this scenario, if you had a choice and you could get the answer from a human in 3 minutes, but the human was a little bit grumpy, or you could get the answer from AI in 3 minutes.
15:46
The AI, it wasn't grumpy, it just you knew it was AI.
In fact, it was very consistently happy, but it was AI.
Who would you work with then if I asked anyone?
Have you ever worked with a grumpy person on the other end of the line before 100%?
16:05
Have you ever worked with somebody that you couldn't really understand what they were trying to tell you?
100% she can't tell me that we want to talk to a human every time.
It's not actually true what we want and where we're going to settle.
Again, it goes back to the I want to remove friction, I want to remove fear, I want it to be faster.
16:29
Those three things.
Well, that's where we're going to go.
And if the human provides that, that's where we're going to go.
If the AI provides that, that's where we're going to go.
And the issue is a lot of folks have not had a good AI experience yet.
16:45
Not because AI is necessarily bad, but whoever trained that AI or built that AI didn't really know what they were doing, wasn't a great experience.
But you talk to anybody that's had a really powerful experience with a well trained, well designed AI and something like that was incredible.
17:06
That was amazing.
And again, the other, we have this like recency bias that what happens is we'll use it.
It won't be a good experience.
We're like, well, AI sucks for that.
OK, maybe it sucks today.
It's not going to suck in 60 days, 90 days, whatever it is, it's constantly evolving.
17:24
You have to have a very short memory with AI because it is evolving and it's evolving really, really fast.
So you can't just have a blanket judgement and say AI stinks at isn't good at can't be.
Like it blows my mind when people say AI is not creative.
What are you talking about?
17:41
I am more creative right now, I would argue than I've ever been using AII think it's incredibly creative and I've built a bunch of tools that help people to be more creative with AI.
Somebody might well say, well, that's that's the antithesis of being creative.
17:58
Like I don't agree with you.
We don't agree with that.
That's that's totally fine, right.
At the same time, I see how flawed it is.
I I get all that stuff, but to say I only want to talk with a human, I do not want to talk.
Not true.
Absolutely not true.
18:18
Hey, hey, does your marketing agency suck?
Listen, before we hop back into this episode, I know you know me as the host of the Dealer Playbook, but did you also know that I'm the CEO of Flexdealer, an agency that's helping dealers capture better quality leads from local SEO and hyper targeted ads that convert.
18:35
So if you want to sell more cars and finally have a partner that's in it with you that doesn't suck, visit flexdealer.com.
Let's hop back into this episode.
Interesting, you know you it brings up for me because that really actually challenged some of the way that I I think about things.
18:55
I've dealt with poor AI and in that interaction I wish I could just talk to a human but it keeps spinning me around to a help base article and I'm like this isn't working.
Not good, terrible experience, but is again, to your point is that the fault of AI?
19:11
That's that is not a representative.
It's like walking into a church and one of its members is rude to you and you're like, this church stinks.
Now that's not that's actually not true.
You just have.
Screwed up people that go to every church doesn't mean that that religion or that church is bad.
19:30
Right.
I mean, it reminds me of just a couple years ago, I was on business in Pakistan of all places.
And did I believe some of the propaganda?
Yes, I did.
Is it like, sure, people we got there, man, it was as calm as a summer's morning and everyone was so apologetic.
19:47
They're like, we know we got a bad rap, but that's like not all of us.
Like we're actually just kind of normal people who want to raise our families and you know, everybody and it that's how I think about AI.
It's like not, that's not the fault of AI.
That's really interesting take.
How do you reconcile that against authenticity, right and transparency?
20:08
Are is there an argument to be said then of if I didn't personally create the work, AI assisted me and or in some cases did it all without my intervention at some point that it's no longer authentic and do we have a desire for that as humans?
20:26
I can't even believe I asked that question with as humans In the end is to to sci-fi for.
Me.
It's actually quite.
I think it's appropriate.
I love the question.
Yeah, I've thought about this one a lot.
Yeah.
I have a company that one of my companies is does communication training.
20:49
So we train leaders, we train sales people, we train account managers how to connect deeply with their audience, win trust.
OK.
And what's 1 of the subjects that I often times have to teach is the idea of what the word performative means performative, which this is going to align with your, your take on authenticity in a minute.
21:14
OK, So I would ask you this question, Michael, I'm not trying to catch you in a snare right now.
I just want to know your take.
Are you being performative right now?
How dare you?
21:41
I mean no and and well.
OK, Fascinating, isn't it?
I'll tell you this.
I'm being performative right now.
I am performing what I feel is the appropriate energy, the appropriate engagement style that this audience needs right now, right?
22:07
I am extremely focused.
I am not being distracted by anything else.
If I'm having a bad day outside of this moment, you're not going to know it.
Right.
I am performing right now.
22:23
Have you ever been on the road before, Michael?
And you Facetimed your kids?
You're utterly exhausted, and yet you put, like, this massive smile on your face.
You ever done that?
Yeah.
Why did you do that?
Because because they don't it, what's happening in my environment shouldn't affect them.
22:42
It's not it's weird.
It's like it's none of their business.
Yeah, it's like it won't help them.
It won't help because your commitment is to be the best dad in the world to your kids.
That's commitment.
Because I know you, I know how you roll.
That was your commitment.
So some people could say, well, is that actually being authentic?
22:59
If your kids say, dad, how's your day, you're going to say, oh, baby, it was a great day.
No day sucked, but you, you are going to be what they need in that moment.
I have people when we're training folks on how to might be a leader on how to give a more effective meeting or how to give the keynote speech or a salesperson how to show up with the prospect.
23:19
A lot of people say, well, that's not really who I am really.
Because often times what will happen is we we conflate the the characteristics from, from, from principles.
Let me give you one more example of this.
23:36
And I promise this is hopefully, hopefully.
I'm not like esoteric for people right now.
But it's like I have a daughter that's 18.
She started teaching dance this last year.
Now her entire life, we have struggled with her to speak up.
And she would always say, because she'd be in the back of the car.
23:53
Mom and I are in front of the car, couldn't hear very well.
Honey, can you speak up?
That's not just not my voice.
That's not who I am.
OK, All right, OK, she good.
She does this dance class and it's like 6 year old girls.
OK comes back from the first first class where she taught.
24:12
How'd it go?
Stuff, stuff.
I struggled for the girls to hear me.
OK, what are you going to do about it?
Well, if I don't if I don't do something, I don't know how this is going to go.
Comes back to the next session.
Hey, I'm.
I'm learning to protect my voice.
24:29
Really.
Tell me about that.
Yeah.
I mean, they're like, hear me now.
And I'm really just like putting it out there.
OK, so what's the lesson in that, sweetheart?
Right.
So the point is she might have naturally a soft voice, but what she needs to be in the moment of teaching 6 year old girls dance is more authority, more projection.
24:53
Otherwise she she will not be heard.
Is that performative?
Is that authentic?
Well, to me that that is exactly what the audience needs.
It's being authentic to a value.
The value is I'm going to give this audience what the audience needs.
25:09
Sometimes again, we conflate authentic with being utterly honest.
You see, there's a whole lot of things that I don't necessarily talk about on LinkedIn, but people consider me authentic.
Just like I don't believe brands should be political.
25:27
I don't think that is appropriate for brands.
Why?
Because unless your employees, every single one of them signed up for that particular political belief, I don't think you should espouse it as like as a brand unless they, unless they know, hey, this is how we are, this is what you're signing up for.
25:47
Then I'm like, totally, OK, then it's a Co-op, right?
But otherwise I, my organizations are going to be apolitical in nature, ideally, right?
Because I don't want to speak for my team unless they've given me permission to speak for them.
You see what I'm saying?
26:03
Now it might be an authentic as a brand right there.
I think I am being very authentic as a brand because my my obsession as a leader is have a very close team and focus on the things that bring us together, not take us apart.
That's how I roll with everything.
26:19
That's why so much of my stuff is, is obviously I've been affected by all the things that I've seen over the past, well, since COVID and all the things since then and how like everything, there's this energy pulling people away.
26:35
I'm like, don't fall for it, guys.
Don't fall for it.
AI is just one example of this.
Bottom line is this, I think we're all performing all the time.
I know I am.
But hopefully the way I'm performing is what is needed in that moment to hold true to my values as human, as a person to others.
27:02
That, to me, is the definition of authenticity.
That's how I roll.
OK, well, I'll see myself out.
I'll get out of here, big dog.
No, but isn't that isn't that interest?
27:17
Have you always been a deep thinker?
Because I where you go and how you return back is, is someone that says, hey, like, yeah, the, the front of this object is interesting, but I, I need to examine the other side first because there's, there's another story over there.
27:36
And I don't find that happens with a lot of people.
People are just very good at face value, which I think a lot of the AI conversation, it has been out there.
I I appreciate the question.
I really appreciate questions that don't get asked often and that makes someone think, you know, I get, I am in lots of interviews and, you know, if if a question comes my way that makes me stop, think, look up, that's a sign that, hey, I'm actually learning something about myself here, which, you know, it's like, props, props to you as a leader.
28:14
And so as an interviewer as well, I would say I just don't immediately, I'm not looking to be contrarian, but I very much believe in the agency of the mind, my mind.
28:33
And our greatest gift, I think that we've been given as humans is the ability to choose.
All right?
I would call that agency, right?
And when I hear someone give an opinion or someone's like the massive, the masses have an opinion on something, I'm not just going to say that's true.
28:56
I'm going to try to look at it and form my own opinion because I, again, have been given the agency to think that, to feel that, which is why, you know, not to hit politics too much.
But the type of person that I want to talk to politically, all I have to do is ask one question to the person.
29:14
Have you ever disagreed with anything that your party said?
If the answer is like, no, that I don't, I don't want to talk politics for that person because they're not thinking for themself.
I want to talk to people that have core beliefs for themself.
29:30
And then I'm like, OK, yeah, yeah.
And they're like the most fascinating ones are the ones that are across the spectrum.
Like they just, they have, you couldn't label them simply because it's like, wow, this person really is a free thinker and they don't just follow the masses.
29:49
They're just not told to do something.
And then they naturally say, OK, well, despite what my core belief is, I'm going to just ignore that now.
And suddenly I'm going to start believe in this thing or saying this thing.
No, no, I want you to be an agent.
I want to be an agent of my thoughts.
30:07
I'm free to choose how I think.
I need to study it out.
I need to ponder the thing.
But then suddenly I can have something that is mine, but at the same time can evolve with time.
There's another part of society.
It's like we've got disappoint.
It's like we're not allowed to just like backtrack.
30:23
We're not allowed to say, you know what?
I've changed my mind.
I think it's awesome when you change your mind.
I would certainly like to think that we're all evolving in a positive way, which means if you're not changing your opinion on things, you're probably not thinking hard enough.
30:39
You're being told what to think.
At that point, you've lost your agency.
I just, I just had this conversation yesterday.
In fact, you know, my daughter and I have a lot of conversations about this.
30:56
And fun side note, we're building AI for our inventory software lift kit, and it's Aria, which stands for Automated Response Inventory Assistant.
But Aria is also Aria's name, my daughter's name.
That's pretty dope dude, I like that.
Cool, right?
31:13
It was a happy side effect.
We didn't plan that.
It just kind of happened.
Or did we plan it 12 years ago when she was born and we were talking about this exact topic Agency the the the greatest ability is that no one in heaven or hell will infringe on my agency.
31:35
I I have the ability to make my own choices And and similarly, I think about it, what you just said.
Why are we so OK with motivational quotes?
Like my old friend said, I changed, I took it as a compliment right?
31:52
And then all of a sudden we don't also want to change at the same time?
Like if I didn't change or evolve as a human being, to your point, I would still only eat plain noodles and like everything about me is an evolved creature.
32:08
It comes with identity and tribe, right?
Like how to because many people inherently want to feel like they belong to something bigger than themselves.
That's why it's always funny to me when somebody says I'm not religious.
I'm like, yeah, you are.
32:23
You have a religion, you just don't go to church, but you're religious because it's the same, like it's the same constant, same principles.
They, they've really latched on to a thing that makes them have in their mind value and add value to the world, right?
32:42
But everybody wants to be a part of a tribe.
And so because of that, sometimes when the tribe goes a different way, we, we, we end up questioning our identity.
Now it's like, am I still in that?
If I am, I still in that tribe if I don't completely follow everything, you know, they say or you know, or do and you know, look, this is one of those things where I don't, you know, propose to have the answer on all things.
33:08
But I I do think that that I don't I don't want to be the type that is an immediate doubter, but I don't also want to be the type that is an immediate agreer with all things.
I really meant what I said.
33:25
I want to hear it, I want to ponder, I want to study it, and then I want to exercise my agency to make a choice for how I am, knowing that I could change that over the course of time.
AI is is a perfect example of this.
There are so many people that are going to end up hurting their business leaders because they're not even willing to have the conversation.
33:53
They're not willing to think about it, right.
And, and they, they, you know, it's like, OK, well, this is the matrix.
Oh, come on now.
Like my fiduciary obligation as a business owner is to meet the market where the market is, to stay in front of it as much as possible so as to protect the company, the brand, and all the employees they're in.
34:15
All right?
That's what I need.
That's what I need to do.
So I'm not going to sit there with an ostrich, like an ostrich with my head in the sand and saying this ain't coming when it's clearly coming.
I'm not going to sit there and say Google's going to last forever when it's not going to last forever.
I'm not going to do that even if it hurts people's feelings because it questions their identity.
34:35
Going back to the SEO gal that that was so upset with me, her identity, her tribe was being questioned.
So she took that as as almost like an assault on the front on on who she was.
Whereas I have this uncanny ability.
34:52
This is like quickly, like uncouple from anything that I was before or believed before or did like, like, you know, if I sell a business, I'm not sitting there thinking about that business for a long, long I'm, I'm moving on.
35:08
I'm just like, I'm a very much look forward type of guy.
For better, for worse.
That's how I am.
I don't sit there and dwell a lot on the past.
I want to learn from my mistakes from the past, but I don't want to live in the past, right, because that's not going to help me.
And as a total, you know, like tangent, which, you know, that's obviously by this point, anybody's still with us knows that.
35:29
OK, there's tangents here, but I appreciate them.
I mean, I, I, I have learned, and I wasn't the one that said this, but I've clearly learned that it's our present that dictates the story of our past, not our past that dictates our present.
35:46
And so many people think it's like, OK, so because this and this happened to me, now it has defined me in this way.
Well, that is significant.
That's very significant because that that's essentially saying my agency's been stripped.
36:02
I can no longer choose who I am because I am handcuffed by the acts of the past.
Whereas as you know, Michael, there are things that happened to you younger, whether it was marriage or childhood or whatever, that you had an interpretation of in that moment when it happened.
36:21
And your interpretation today of that is very different because you have changed.
The ACT itself did not change.
What changed was your mindset on that thing.
So in a moment, this is also why many people that go through catastrophic events that changes their entire life end up saying later on, I wouldn't change it because I I want to be who I am today.
36:43
But in the moment they hated thing, right?
It's a terrible thing.
And I think it's important to have that perspective as well.
There's change happening in me over the course of this conversation.
And, but, well, you ask you, you pose things in a very, very compelling way, but similar to the formula that you've articulated.
37:09
I'm grateful for my desire and ability to pause and challenge what I hear against what I thought I knew And, and I mean what you just said.
I would not be here in this moment doing what I'm doing if I didn't do that constantly.
37:31
And it kind of brings us right back to the the beginning, this middle ground idea where, where I can live in the middle ground comfortably because I'm able to examine both narratives at the same time, understanding they cannot.
37:46
They're not mutually exclusive and formulate my own position and position to me.
I think so many people, their identity gets locked up in, you know, like we were talking about.
That becomes their religion.
That becomes their religion.
It becomes a religion.
38:02
It's like I am going to be an AI zealot, right, right.
You know AI means no jobs utopia, live forever, right, Whatever, whatever that thing is.
I'm like, but that same person is ignoring often times, not all of them, but often times they end up ignoring many of the drawbacks that are with it right now.
38:28
You know, it's like I, for example, I'm attempting to use AI agents all the time.
For the most part, I have been pretty disappointed.
OK, I've been pretty disappointed.
Now, that doesn't mean that they don't work and they're not really good on certain applications, but for the most part, they're not great yet.
38:45
And that's OK because that also says to me, all right, but I do know they're going to be good.
And I'm going to start to figure this out now so that I'm not constantly playing this game of ketchup, which is what, again, most businesses and most business owners are going to be coming from a, you know, a strong place of ketchup.
39:04
You know, it's like there's going to be people five years from now that are obsessed with SEO and they have, they're not even thinking about a ISEO and they're going to be wondering like, why is this not working at all?
And how come I can't generate leads for my business?
Well, because again, you just said this is, this is the thing that's worked for years.
39:23
And, you know, my SEO company said that this AI thing wasn't going to be a big deal and it wasn't going to affect SEO.
And Google's going to be here forever.
And they're, you know, they're scoring $350 billion a year in profit.
So, hey, I think they're going to be just fine.
It's like actually it's not how it really works, right?
I think about, I mean, our business wouldn't exist to this.
39:44
Let me back up my brains moving faster than my mouth.
The compounding effect of what you're talking about, Hey, I don't know fully where AI is going to end up, but I do know that I need to be aware.
I need to be playing with it.
I'm going to be disappointed a lot.
40:00
I'm going to try and I'm going to fail and I'm going to learn things, but there's a compounding.
Effect here of learning that that eventually becomes a deeper level of understanding, which, you know, I believe understanding is the pinnacle of learning when I really just understand.
And the reason I will get ahead is because I put the reps in and there is something to be said of getting the reps in early and often versus, you know, like I think about this, you know, most people don't, I think realize that we started playing around with AI in like what 1941 or something like that.
40:36
Everything moves really slow until it doesn't all of a sudden.
And and if you are perpetually not paying attention and not playing with and learning and trying and failing and testing the way you, that's the recipe.
40:53
What I'm taking from this is that's the recipe to feeling left out and feeling like things move too fast is because all of a sudden you started paying attention when it stole the narrative.
And it's such a great point when I was when I started producing content about my journey as a pool guy in 2009 and started using the phrase they ask you answer.
41:14
I made so many millionaires, dude, like of people that have come to me 1015 years later now and said Marcus, like you really made me a millionaire.
I did the thing if those same, like if somebody read the same book today and applied it the exact same way today, might they be a millionaire?
41:36
Maybe, right, but not as easily as they would have been in those early days of me talking about this stuff, right?
And it's like, this is what we this is what we tend to.
This is what we tend to see.
But the problem is what happens is we make a couple bets and the bets don't fly.
41:54
And so then once again, we just allow this weird human thing to get in the way and we just blanket, we have this like blanket opinion.
It's like all it all must be hogwash.
No, no, no, no, man, that didn't, that didn't work or that didn't pan out.
It's like, you know, it was a few years ago we were talking, remember, everybody got like a virtual reality headset for like Christmas one year.
42:15
It's like 5-6 years ago or like this is going to be, this is going to take over the world.
Owned by cars in the metaverse.
Man dressed up like a gorilla, Yeah.
OK, that's not happening right now.
Could it happen in the future?
It definitely could.
42:31
Is Ready Player 1 still a strong option?
Yeah, definitely could be.
Right.
So the time frame, the event horizon was very off of what everybody predicted there, myself included.
You know, I was actually, that's one of the ones I missed on was how quickly VR would become, you know, would become a big, would become a big deal.
42:53
I can still look at it though today and laugh.
I can say it's it's probably going to still be a big deal in the future.
It's inevitable.
I do think actually VR is going to be very, very big.
I think it's got a long runway.
But what I did do is I tried it early and then early I was willing to get off of the train because I didn't marry myself to it as I never generally do.
43:13
And I said, OK, here's like there's all these adoption problems with it.
So it's not going to be practical in the short term.
Keep your eye open, but don't invest in VR Arkansas today there for the most part, most of you shouldn't be investing in it.
Fine, great, like that's it.
43:30
Moving on.
And by the way, if you are still playing with it, are you just always motion sick?
Are you always I-17 seconds in there?
And I, my kids go, how do you, how are you not able to live in here?
43:46
And I'm like, dude.
Yeah, there's a moment where every single video we saw online was your grandmother, like, you know, like rolling around on the floor because she had some VR like battle and had never used it before and couldn't disconnect the census.
Right.
You haven't seen a video like that freaking five years now.
44:02
It's just funny how that.
But again, it's like, I'm not pointing back at that.
Like ha ha, you were all wrong.
Just look at it for what it was and what it will be.
Yes, it's going to still be a big deal.
This is a long runway here.
44:19
I think of the iteration too, just since that time, you know, if, if the Zuck didn't come out with the, the thing, the meta horizon or whatever it's called, if he didn't do that, potentially would not be coming out with the new iteration of the meta glasses that have, you know, the, the screen built in that you, you know, and, and so they needed that development in order to advance their clarity or their position or their understanding where.
44:48
They want to go part of the iteration process.
I mean, this happens with all types of businesses, all types of companies and technologies.
Often times we get into business, we think we know what we are and we in the market shows us actually we're something very different.
You know, I've, I've developed a couple software companies over the last couple of last year actually really in both times I thought I knew what they were going into it and they evolved as the market shows us what it's actually supposed to become.
45:15
But we have to go through those things again, didn't mean didn't mean that that initial phase where we had, you know, different like vision and, and goals and all these things.
It wasn't a waste.
It just evolved.
That's the whole idea.
But if you're not paying attention, then you don't evolve.
45:32
And, and that's the problem.
If you're burying your head in the sand, that's the problem.
Just don't do that if you're not remaining open to what's possible, right.
If you're allowing your personal opinion, script smart business decisions, these are all the things you have to be very, very careful of.
Nobody really cares if you don't watch video, your buyer is nobody cares if you aren't using AI.
45:50
Many, not all, but many of your buyers are.
And eventually all will be right.
These, these are the inevitables that are coming.
So okay, well, how do I prepare for that?
What do I need to do?
Well, you need to get into the sandbox.
That's what you need to do.
You need to stop treating AI like it's a tool.
46:07
I don't actually like calling it a tool at all because I don't call my employees tools.
I certainly don't call AI a tool.
And AI, the whole problem with the way people use it is they treat it like a tool, like it's Google.
It ain't a tool, It ain't Google.
Treat it like it is a literal assistant that is next to you in the office that is as smart as anything in the world.
46:31
It's just slightly different, kind of like on the spectrum, if you will.
And so you got to work with it.
But if you had somebody that was an assistant genius to you, right, a genius, and they were working for you for free, you would say, all right, well, tell me about what you can do.
46:55
And they would tell you.
And then it would ask you questions and you'd answer them and you'd go back and forth.
And that's what would happen with AI.
Most people don't go back and forth.
They don't say ask me questions.
That's a huge, huge mistake.
But if you just go into AI with, listen, I got no idea how to use you right, but I don't want to use you right.
47:16
And I want you to ask me any question you need to ask me so as to help me improve my life.
That's starting point right there.
That's the starting point.
The starting point.
Hey, go, go write me an article.
No, that's not the starting point.
47:31
The starting point is having a conversation with it like it's a real assistant, and having a back and forth, figuring each other out and then producing stuff.
It's actually interesting you say that.
One of my business partners and I this week had been talking about how good Deep Research and GPT has gotten.
47:54
Huge value.
And the first thing it does is it asks you four or five clarifying questions.
And just this morning in a team meeting, he's our, he's our COO at one of our companies and you know, an all team meeting and he's like, hey, guys, imagine what would happen to our customer partnerships if instead of just saying yes to every request, you paused and asked 345 clarifying questions.
48:19
Isn't that great?
And we got it from we got it from GPTV Research.
Yes, yes, and that's that is so incredibly true.
And that's the, you know, that's the mindset we should have.
That's just good interaction, one O 1 good communication, one O 1.
48:39
Listen guys, I've like anybody who's listening to this.
I, for those that are the AI doomsdayers and the naysayers, it's OK to say I'm worried about the future.
48:55
I'm worried about where all this is headed.
And at the same time for you to use the same thing and take advantage of the thing.
Perfect case in point, AI is is already solving health complications that humans couldn't piece together.
49:16
This is already happening, there's been proven evidence of it.
I'm of the camp and this is purely speculation of course, but I'm of the camp that the the the cure for cancer already exists.
We just have too much data that any single person or persons can compile well enough to say, oh, there's the patterns.
49:37
Now we see it all come together so that we have the cure, whereas AI is going to do that.
So let's say that it just hypothetically, let's say that it does, it does cure cancer or it certainly helps it facilitates, it, speeds it up by 30 years, whatever it is.
49:55
How many of you right now would say, OK, I'll, I'll walk away from my career and do something different for that to be possible?
I know I would, I would in a second.
And and so it's like you can't for those that are saying it's killing jobs, it's killing this, it's killing that.
50:14
You can't also in the same breath say, but I don't want its benefits.
And we're just starting to taste the benefits when it comes to the health breakthroughs.
And that's the thing we all have in common because we all know someone with cancer, right?
50:29
We've all been affected by cancer in some way, shape or form.
When that happens and we start to see those major worldwide health breakthroughs and they're going to come, I think they're very inevitable.
50:46
A lot of people going to have to eat crow and look in the mirror and say, oh Gee, what's my identity now?
Because I want to.
I want to benefit from it too.
I want my aunt, my uncle, my mother, my father, myself to be able to experience that technology.
51:02
At the same time, I've been the person here that's been complaining the whole time that it's, you know, that it's the end of the world and it's taking jobs.
OK, Which one was?
It brings us right back to where we started in a lot of ways, right?
Which is it's OK to be in the middle.
And don't let anyone try to say that it's weak.
51:19
Having a perspective that sees both sides of the thing.
That doesn't mean inaction by the way, doesn't mean you don't have strong opinions, but it just means you are thorough in the way you approach.
Oh my gosh, it, it, it's so true.
51:45
I was thinking about this in relation to and, and this could be seen as a polarizing statement, but I was thinking about it even during the pandemic.
You know, I don't care if you're vax or anti vax or whatever it is, but you know, it brings in a moral debate in which you have to, you know, you have to decide well, where what is my position?
52:08
You know, I look at the pandemic, for example, here's my polarizing statement.
All of the people that at one point were mad at the pharmaceutical companies for how much they charge for medications is also the exact reason why they were able to produce a vaccine in under a year because they had the resources and the finances to do it.
52:24
You and and I say that not to create a polarizing statement for the audience and lose audience, but it, it what you just said makes me think, Hey, you can be in the middle.
You don't have to be so polar opposite of everything all the time.
52:41
You can be annoyed with how much they make and also be grateful that you were one of the ones that were, you know, the beneficiary of it.
Yeah, yeah.
And to to really push the controversial button for a second.
Yeah, you could attack Joe Biden and praise him and attack Donald Trump and praise him and be the same person.
53:05
But most people, frankly, have lost the intellectual maturity to do both because we're so tribal, because we're so like, I hate that side.
53:22
I'm like, I'm not going to, I'm not going to play that game again.
I'm not going to allow everyone else's emotions to prevent me from seeing the good that each one of these people is done right, because it is.
It is definitive that both presidents have done good and has have also probably made bad choices, right?
53:46
And that's true for pretty much every leader in the history of the world.
That's how it works.
That's what leadership is.
It's a series of, of, of good and bad choices, much of which is judged by history after the fact, right?
54:03
And not so much in in the moment, even.
And that's how it'll always be.
That's why most people refuse to be leaders.
They'd rather complain than to actually be the one with that pressure on their shoulders.
I mean, think of how deep that goes because like as a Christian, they still at, at a time in, in our world's history, there was a group of people who had enough of a polarizing opinion that they crucified Christ because they saw him as the outlier, as, you know, a hippie, as you know, somebody that was just screwing things.
54:38
He was preaching a different point of view.
And he was preaching a different point of view.
And and I'm like, wow, you know, I think about that.
It depends on what side of history you're on and what hindsight you have that shapes a different opinion.
But I mean, you know, just recently flying back home from business, apparently there is a massive Jewish community synagogue camp something around Dallas.
55:04
And we were on a plane with about 487,000 Jews like from from JFK.
And we got to sit next to some of them because they they were all wearing very traditional attire.
And we got to ask them what are the all the threads meaning and what and and here you have two groups of people who have two different views on Jesus Christ.
55:27
But we were still able to come together and have a very productive and enjoyable and interesting conversation about it.
It's a beautiful thing.
About him?
Beautiful thing.
I just think that is that is that that to me is is so powerful and we can't, we can't lose.
55:45
We can't lose that ability because, truth be told, so many of these people that we think we dislike, if we sat down with them in a coffee shop or a bar or wherever it might be at a kitchen table and just had a chat, we'd probably find a person was actually rather enjoyable.
56:02
And I found that we agreed on way more than we did not agree on.
That's the thing.
That's what's so wild about it.
Yeah, we're seeing it.
We're seeing it.
We're seeing it in business.
I mean, you layer in one's ability, you know, when you take such a, a strong position, AI zealot or AI hype or whatever it is, and, and then you've tied your finances to that position, that that's what makes it really difficult.
56:33
But I mean, you've evolved and, and have, I would argue, grown tremendously from a financial position.
I know I have by the way you talk about, they ask you answer.
I, I, before I forget, I have to give you props for this because you mentioned all the millionaires as a result of they ask you answer, I need you to know before our time runs out that A, I'm one of them because of your encouragement and your words.
57:01
B, there is not a proposal that goes out from my businesses that doesn't have your name in them.
And I know we don't get to connect as often.
You're, you know, you're globetrotting and we're all doing our things.
But I think it's so tremendous because you've always been an encourager and challenge to the narrative.
57:24
And, and I thank you immensely for that because I, I do sincerely mean it.
The impact that you've had on on my ability to provide and my ability to think critically about some of these things, This to me is a continuation of the conversation.
57:40
It is, yeah.
It it is you have found a way to evolve and you, you know, there's nothing more scary I found than putting words in print that then lives forever.
But you found a way to make a continuation of that and to evolve your position.
57:56
Tell me a little bit about the motivator of endless customers.
Endless customers.
Yeah, it was just as soon as chat CBD came out, I started getting a lot of questions from people that said what does this mean for?
They ask you answer, what does this mean for content?
58:12
What does this mean for blogging?
What does this mean for social?
What does this mean for websites?
All the above, right?
What does?
This mean for my marriage?
What does it mean for?
Yeah, you're getting all the questions.
You know they ask you answer.
So I said.
I answered by writing, writing the newest edition to it.
58:29
The hard part is, of course, even writing about AI, it's, it's almost impossible because by the time a book gets published, it could be very outdated.
So I was trying to focus as much as I could on principles over very specific, let's call it practices or platforms.
58:50
And so that's why we, this book has a companion guide for anything that could just become outdated tomorrow.
We put in the companion guide like what's the best tools for such and such AI or best prompts for this, right?
You know, you know, if we're going to be using the word prompts in three years.
So, you know, if that's the case, I, I, I don't, I want, I wanted the book to become more, you know, principle driven.
59:11
It really is a system to become the most known and trusted brand in your market.
Full stop.
That's what it is.
It's a system to become the most known and trusted brand in your market.
And there's four pillars it's built upon.
Real simple.
You got to be willing to say online what others in your space are not willing to say.
59:28
You got to be more open, honest, transparent #2 you got to be willing to show with video what others in your space aren't willing to show #3 you got to be willing to sell in a way others aren't willing to sell.
And #4 you got to be more human than others are willing to be.
So I'm literally saying use technology more and be more human in the book.
59:49
And I believe that we succeed in showing people how to do that in the book.
It's a system that any business, B to B or B to C, product or service can apply.
I've seen it work many, many times because it's rooted in trust.
And trust is going to be the battle we're all in as long as we're in this thing called business.
1:00:08
That's not going to go away.
The platforms will come and go, the Googles of the world.
Chachi PTS of the world, they're going to come and go.
What will not come and go is the need to generate more trust in the marketplace that is eternal, that is Evergreen as a company.
1:00:24
And therefore that's where your obsession should be.
And so that's why you should consistently be saying to yourself, if we did this, I know no one's ever done it before, but if if we did, would it induce more trust?
And if the answer is yes, you're like, OK, let's play.
Let's see where this goes.
OK, well, you definitely need to get a copy of this book for those that are listening and watching.
1:00:45
Hey, we're going to do something.
If you would entertain me, if you're getting value from the show, I would love an honest review on Spotify or Apple.
All you got to do is screenshot that.
Once you've submitted it, send it to us, Michael, at the dealer, playbook.com.
We're going to be giving away, I don't know, let's say 10 free copies of this book to the 1st 10 people that do that.
1:01:07
And I want to get into your hands because it's a game changer.
Marcus, how can those listening and watching connect with you?
Yeah, you can find me Marcus at marcussheridan.com is my e-mail, my websites marcussheridan.com and you should connect with me as Michael mentioned on LinkedIn, I'm pretty good over there.
1:01:25
So I put my most like recent thoughts and if you need a a great speaker for your event, let's have a chat.
I think I could probably deliver some something really extraordinary for routine for your audience.
I know, I know, that's true.
1:01:41
Marcus.
Thanks so much buddy for joining me on The Daily Playbook.
Yeah, my pleasure.
(Outro) Hey, thanks for listening to the Dealer Playbook Podcast. If you enjoyed tuning in, please subscribe, share and hit that like button. You can also join us and the DPB community on social media. Check back next week for a new Dealer Playbook episode. Thanks so much for joining.
