"Wearing the story" — Marketing cars through authentic connection | Paul J Daly, Founder/CEO ASOTU
Is your dealership marketing feeling hollow? Are you chasing digital trends only to find your message falls flat? Many in automotive retail are struggling to cut through the noise, constantly investing in strategies that fail to build genuine connection or long-term loyalty.
This isn't just about selling cars; it's about building a brand that resonates deeply with your community and stands the test of time.
In this episode, you’ll learn:
How to build an authentic brand that attracts customers who choose your dealership.
The difference between fleeting "hype" and lasting, trustworthy dealership leadership.
Why a targeted approach to automotive sales content creates a powerful inbound lead engine.
How even a small audience can translate into massive dealer growth and business opportunities.
The essential truth about connecting with customers: people buy stories, not just products.
Paul J. Daly, Founder and CEO of ASOTU and host of Automotive State of The Union, shares his insights on why authentic connection is the ultimate marketing advantage in today's landscape.
Timestamps
00:00 Controversial Brand Question
00:36 Intro
05:10 Your Podcast Town
07:15 See What Happens
09:03 Big Guests Build Credibility
15:50 Niche Down Till It Hurts
17:31 Dealerships Are Unique
18:37 Wearing The Story
28:15 Known To Trusted
33:49 Contact And Wrap Up
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Episode Transcript
[0:00] Michael Cirillo: Okay, I have a controversial question. Yes, I'm going to put you on the spot. And just for everyone listening, I know — just because I know Paul — there are going to be names coming to his mind that he wishes he could say, but he won't. And then there will be whichever one he uses as an example.
[0:20] Paul J. Daly: I'm going to turn this camera off right now so I don't give you any tells.
[0:23] Michael Cirillo: Here's the question.
[0:25] Paul J. Daly: Stretchya pants.
[0:26] Michael Cirillo: What's a brand that most people in automotive think is strong, that you actually think is kind of hollow, and why?…….
[Intro] One of the things that I enjoy most about producing the Dealer Playbook is hearing from you. The messages that I get from people who are getting so much value out of the podcast, applying it to their day-to-day workflows, and finding a thriving career right here in the retail auto industry — it means the world to me. And one of the ways that we make doing this possible is through my agency, Flex Dealer. In the spirit of providing value, head over to flexdealer.com. Right now, if you go to my website, you can get a full free PDF of my number one bestselling book, Don't Wait, Dominate. A lot of the topics discussed in this book are even more relevant today than ever, with this surge in popularized AI and people wondering, what can I do next? How can I have a competitive advantage? That's all here in this book, and I'd love to offer you a free copy at flexdealer.com.
[1:57] Michael Cirillo: Okay, I want to ask you this. Before the internet, I was the only Michael Cirillo in the world. And I also feel like early on, I was the only person I knew who was actually building something on the back of a brand that I didn't even know I was building at the time. And then I meet you. Fun fact — the first time you were on the show, we were not coworkers.
[2:26] Paul J. Daly: No. Which is a super fun way to be on a show, by the way.
[2:33] Michael Cirillo: It got me thinking about what other things have come because of this thing we both decided to do — called a podcast. When you really zoom out of that, you're like, how strange. It's a podcast.
[2:49] Paul J. Daly: And in my case, for many, many years, it's just the podcast with not that many people listening to it. If you take it in the broader context of what we see — the Joe Rogans and all these big influencers — it's a relatively small number of people listening to whatever comes out of my mouth on a recording once a week.
[3:14] Michael Cirillo: Right. And that's what fascinates me about it. Because of a podcast, I've written a bestselling book. Because of a podcast, I've spoken all over the world — literally from Australia to Kazakhstan and everything in between.
[3:34] Paul J. Daly: I've heard about this.
[3:35] Michael Cirillo: Because of a podcast, so many things have come of it. And then one of those things is helping other people produce podcasts. I've got a handful of people I help now because I've got the formula after 14 years. I know you've got the formula too.
My point is this. When people come to me and say, "Hey, I was thinking about doing a podcast," I say, "Okay." And they say, "Because I want to be the next Joe Rogan." And I say, stop, pause.
[4:09] Michael Cirillo: Joe Rogan was a celebrity for 35 years.
[4:13] Paul J. Daly: Yeah. That's like saying I'm going to start playing football so I can be the starting quarterback of a Super Bowl team.
[4:19] Michael Cirillo: Right. If I'm comparing to Joe Rogan, I'm going to look like a complete and abysmal failure. But if I look at the context of my own ecosystem — like I can pull a soapbox over, stand on it in the middle of my town, and start talking while a group of people rally around — to the point of what you've experienced. So tell me, from your vantage point, what have you noticed by simply putting yourself out there and knowing that there is a curated group of people that start circling around?
[5:10] Paul J. Daly: I like how you called it a town, because that really is a great example of what any podcast can be — amidst various sizes of towns. The coolest towns I've ever been to are never gigantic. They might not be tiny, but there's a size where you walk in and think, this town is pretty amazing. I would love to live here because it has this vibe, these kinds of people, this kind of energy.
[6:02] Paul J. Daly: So I think anyone who starts a podcast has the opportunity to decide and shape the type of town that other people want to live in. And that really is what brand is. Brand is like a beacon that other people are attracted to. People say your brand is about your values and telling people about your values — and I disagree with that. The only thing that makes a strong brand is putting its values out there and saying, this is what we believe. But a brand is just a reflection mechanism. People who see it either see themselves reflected back or they don't. It allows them to say, I see myself in that brand, and that makes them move toward it. Or it makes them say, I don't really see myself here.
[6:43] Paul J. Daly: The town metaphor holds up. You go to a town and some people might love it, but you might think, it's a little too wild for me. Or it's too laid back. That is what a podcast gives us — the ability to record words coming out of our mouth, distribute them, and define a town center. Say, this is the town I want to live in, and let the people who want to live there subscribe.
[7:18] Paul J. Daly: And as I started a podcast, I just started it. There's a prequel to The Hunger Games — I can't remember what it's called — but there's one character in there, kind of a sheer opportunist looking for fame and leverage. And he has this saying that stuck with me: "See what happens when you do things." He would just try random stuff and sometimes something would happen. I say that to my son Miles all the time. With a podcast, it's the same thing — see what happens when you do things. Just start, stay consistent, flesh out your thinking, and attract the people who think that way too.
[8:23] Paul J. Daly: So many of the relationships, businesses, and opportunities I've had — I can map them directly back to the fact that I started a podcast and was consistent with it. My first podcast was called the Dealer's Compressed Podcast, which morphed into Clarity Compressed because I branched out beyond automotive into broader brand, strategy, and personal development. I did that every week for five years, took a break, and just fired it up again about a month ago.
[9:12] Paul J. Daly: That podcast was a connecting point I made to speakers. If you look back at the Clarity Compressed podcast and the guests I had on — I way out-kicked my coverage. Only because, if they knew how many people were actually listening in the beginning. But you know how it goes. You get one guest, then you use that guest to get two, then three, then five.
[9:34] Michael Cirillo: It's like your brand is a beacon — a reflection back. I mean, who have you had on? Jocko, Gary Vaynerchuk, Guy Kawasaki, Donald Miller.
[9:49] Paul J. Daly: Heavy hitters.
[9:55] Michael Cirillo: And I think they say yes because of brand. They see a reflection back of something that resonates with them. When I think Paul Daly, I always think brand. A podcast is like a mechanism that helps articulate the beacon.
[10:33] Paul J. Daly: Yes. And that's why this works for anybody.
[10:34] Michael Cirillo: I think dealers need to have their own podcast. And it cannot be about selling cars. It needs to be about something adjacent. Think about what's happened with my own business — with Flex Dealer and what we're experiencing at More Than Cars. Because of a podcast, we have one of the most incredible live events I've attended in nearly 24 years in automotive. Because of a podcast, I have an inbound sales mechanism with no outbound sales team, and a full pipeline with a waitlist.
[11:25] Michael Cirillo: I remember when our CRO Emer first joined the team, coming from outside automotive. He said, "We've got a sales call coming up and we have no pitch deck." I said, slow down. He said, "How do you do this without a pitch deck?" I said, just watch. We show up to the call and I say, "Hey, what brings us to the call today?" And they say, "Oh my gosh, I didn't think it was actually going to be you. We've been listening to you for six years." And Emer has learned — that's how it goes.
[11:57] Paul J. Daly: There is nothing more valuable than that. There is no better way to nurture a lead. Hands down.
[12:05] Michael Cirillo: I didn't know I was doing it at the time. Now I have a formula. I didn't know there were mechanics to all of this — that you could create an inbound engine for a business.
[12:23] Paul J. Daly: Let me tell you a fun story because it's super recent. I was sitting on a flight — a bunch of flights got canceled, it was a mess — and I ended up rebooked, sat next to some guy. Short flight, about an hour. I asked what he does. He used to be in the military, became the CEO of a business, and now he gets hired by boards of directors to come in and give the CEO a last shot before they fire them. He's like, "This guy I'm working with right now — I can't figure out what it is, but he's hiding something." I was like, what a fun job.
[13:14] Paul J. Daly: So he asks what I do, and he says, "That's funny — my son is the president of a finance company that lends specifically to larger contractors doing concrete work. They offer high-interest loans, like credit cards, to finance very quickly. A concrete company gets a huge order, needs to buy raw materials — they come in and say, here's a credit card at 17% interest, but you'll pay it off in 90 days, so it really doesn't matter. You just care about getting funded quickly without going through bank paperwork."
He says, "You know how he gets all his business?" I said no. He says, "He's got a podcast." He just talks about topics around the industries he serves. He never once mentions that he offers financing. Yet every episode, they get a long list of people signing up and inquiring about financing.
[14:24] Paul J. Daly: If it can niche down to concrete contractors, can you still say that podcasting is not a viable means of growing your business pipeline?
[14:39] Michael Cirillo: I want to pick your brain on this. I saw a guy on LinkedIn — he's not even in our industry — saying podcasting doesn't work anymore, that you need long-form YouTube content. And the comments are full of people saying, isn't that a podcast?
[15:07] Paul J. Daly: What does he look like? Does he have a beard?
[15:10] Michael Cirillo: I genuinely don't know.
[15:14] Paul J. Daly: He looked like a hoser, eh?
[15:18] Michael Cirillo: He looked like a damn hoser. Shout out to my Canadian friends and family. But we are experiencing the complete opposite. I see podcasting as an entryway that opens up so many opportunities. And it really comes back to brand, message, and what you stand for.
[15:40] Michael Cirillo: You've got to niche down until it hurts. I remember the big podcasters when I first started — John Lee Dumas, Pat Flynn, Amy Porterfield. They were making six figures a month from podcasting. And John Lee Dumas was the first person who said to me, you've got to niche down till it hurts.
[16:18] Paul J. Daly: I fully agree. I think — Seth Godin may call it something different — but it's about finding the minimum viable audience. How small can you get it and still accomplish your business objectives? That is completely counterintuitive to the allure of influencer culture and podcasting numbers. That game tells you you're not successful until you have millions of downloads.
[16:56] Paul J. Daly: The reality is, you don't need that many — especially if you work with customers who have a high lifetime value. In the auto industry, our foundation is solid. A consumer needs to buy a car and drive a car. It's moving molecules. It's hard asset-based. It's never going away. It's a staple of the US economy. And within that, there are 16,000 new car dealers in the US and countless independents — no two are alike. Even if they sell the same car in the same market, the tech stack is different, the people are different, the culture is different. We have all these opportunities to niche down within our industry for the people that want to live in the town we want to build.
[18:03] Paul J. Daly: For you, for me, for Flex, for More Than Cars — we have this people-centric approach. Remember, you had bracelets that said "People Over Profit."
[18:15] Michael Cirillo: Why do you remember that?
[18:17] Paul J. Daly: Because you gave me one. And the Flex watch you gave me — I only wear it on special occasions.
[18:24] Michael Cirillo: Oh my gosh.
[18:25] Paul J. Daly: I feel like a baller when I wear it. For me, that's my fancy watch. And look, Michael — this is exactly what I'm talking about. The way I feel when I put that watch on is the only thing that matters. It doesn't matter how much you paid to have it made. It matters that you gave it to me. It carries value because of you, your beliefs, the respect I have for you, the entrepreneurial spirit, the fact that you love watches — and I know that because I've seen you talk about it in your content.
[19:11] Paul J. Daly: When I wear that watch, I'm not wearing the watch. I'm wearing the story. And that's what a podcast does — it allows people, if you're consistent, to wear the story. And that's really what a great brand is.
You know what a Stradivarius is — the violin. They took a pro violinist and said, we've restored this Stradivarius and we're going to let you play it. For a concert violinist, it's the pinnacle. You can't play a better instrument. And they had a real Stradivarius and a fake one. To a person, every single violinist said the non-Stradivarius sounded better. Because they were playing the story at that moment. They felt the emotion.
[20:32] Michael Cirillo: You're blowing my mind. Speaking of watches and the Stradivarius story — I went to a watch fair. I wasn't going with the intention to buy, but it was micro brands. Niche brands you've never heard of. Not Rolex, not Omega. And I'm suddenly exposed to French and German brands I've never heard of.
[21:18] Michael Cirillo: One brand — I can't remember the name, but I could find it because I was so captivated by the story. The founder was standing right there. He was from Norway. He said, all of our watch designs come from adventures I've been on. He pulled up an iPad: "This one was inspired by the Arctic Glacier." He showed footage of himself actually climbing the glacier. "This one is from a lava field" — here's the video. I was like, I want to give this man my money. And then he said, they're $2,500. And I said...
[21:53] Paul J. Daly: I need to ask my wife.
[21:57] Michael Cirillo: But to your point — there is a connection there. Similar to why, when people come to a sales call for our company, they're connected to the story. They're not connected to a podcast. They're connected to a relationship.
[22:12] Paul J. Daly: To a relationship, a belief, a connection. If you were the kind of person who liked to hike glaciers and lava fields, I bet you would remember the name of that watch company. It would be at the top of your list.
People connect to the story, and through the story, they connect to us as people. Human to human connection — that's all this is. That's why podcasting is real. That's why when people start faking things with AI — fake podcasting, fake content — it will serve some purpose and move the needle in the short term. But humans are really good at detecting what's not real. It's going to turn back very quickly to people understanding what's real and what's not. And it's very hard to duplicate a real person over time.
[23:31] Paul J. Daly: The watch story is the cleanest example. What were you enamored with? The watch was cool, sure. But you lived vicariously through someone doing something you know you'd never want to do.
[23:38] Michael Cirillo: Because it sounds like camping.
[23:38] Paul J. Daly: You didn't buy one in the moment, but that doesn't mean you're never going to. And right now you're telling everyone listening to this. Maybe there's a watch person on a glacier listening right now. That's the power of that story — a minimum viable audience getting more airtime across thousands of listeners because they were authentically themselves.
[23:58] Michael Cirillo: Okay. This ties into my controversial question. I'm going to put you on the spot. Just for everyone listening — I know Paul, and there are going to be names coming to his mind that he wishes he could say, but he won't.
[24:22] Paul J. Daly: I'm going to turn this camera off right now so I don't give you any tells.
[24:25] Michael Cirillo: Here's the question. Stretchy pants. What's a brand that most people in automotive think is strong, that you actually think is kind of hollow, and why? It doesn't even have to be an automotive brand — just a brand where general belief says it's strong, and you think it's hollow.
[24:50] Paul J. Daly: Your prediction is correct — there are things coming to mind. I'm going to start by saying this: I believe that if a brand is hollow, it's because the business model does not prioritize an authentic brand. And I can't make a moral judgement on whether that's good or bad, because business is about transacting. If anyone says business isn't about the money — well, they don't have a business, because if you don't have money, you don't have a business.
[25:39] Michael Cirillo: You've been hanging out with senators, I can tell.
[25:42] Paul J. Daly: They are wiggly. What I will say is this — from a hollow standpoint, about eight out of ten times, the more hype there is around a brand, the more hollow it actually is. Brands that get by on hype alone — the meaning behind that brand is one of the first things people run from the moment there's any conflict, tension, or small misalignment. We've seen this in pop culture, across big brands. The bigger a brand gets, the harder it is to be authentic and have depth — just by the nature of a large business.
[26:39] Paul J. Daly: But hype doesn't mean the brand won't grow or make money or get people to try a product. I think the brands with the most hype also have the highest churn and the lowest loyalty. And then you get companies that have both hype and depth — and when that happens, you can always backtrack and see they've been doing the work.
[27:20] Paul J. Daly: I'll shout one out because I've seen it. I think Vin Q is a company that has a lot of hype right now, but when you meet the people, there's actually a lot of depth there. Another example — Russ from Flips Whips. He's got a ton of hype and people might say he's just another influencer. But when you go back seven, eight, nine years and watch his early videos, he's sitting in a car awkwardly talking his way through it, saying "um" every other word. And getting to know him, you realize he's a genuinely open-handed person who wants to help people — not just about the views, even if it's also about the views. There's a crossfade that happens.
[28:11] Michael Cirillo: I feel satisfied in your diplomacy. And it ties into my next question. There is a difference between being known — kind of like hype — and being trusted. How do you know when you've crossed that line? What actually gets you from being known to being trusted?
[28:44] Paul J. Daly: That's a good one. Being trusted is a combination of things. The precursor to individual experience is your second-layer network. Michael, if you came to me and said, "Here's this company, here's this person, they're trustworthy" — because you had an experience — that moves someone from known to trusted, because someone I trust said they trust them.
[29:18] Paul J. Daly: The second thing — I was going to say repetition, but let me correct that: interaction. You cannot really trust somebody until you've interacted with them. You can build up trust, but the first moment of actual interaction is when you find out how much you actually trust them. And your trust cannot go much deeper until you've personally confirmed they are the real thing.
[29:55] Paul J. Daly: For instance, I've never been to Eleven Madison Park — it was Will Guidara's restaurant. But I have trust in that brand because of everything I've heard. I can say, that seems like a great place, you should go. But there will come a moment when I actually go. In that moment, that very fragile trust could disappear in an instant. Conversely, if I've been there three times and then have one slightly bad experience, that trust doesn't fully fall apart. You need some level of interaction for trust to actually take root.
[30:36] Paul J. Daly: And I think consistency and repetition matter. A lot of people say, "We have integrity." I think integrity is really just a synonym for predictability. If I can accurately predict what your next move will be — or how you will decide when presented with a situation — then I would say that person or that brand has integrity. Because it's predictable.
[31:02] Michael Cirillo: There's something about experiencing somebody in person and marrying that to what you've seen digitally. That's one of the reasons I enjoy going to events like SodoCon so much. I met you and felt like I knew you. Then here was a real opportunity in the right setting to confirm that wasn't all fake — that you can actually be trusted. Tell me a little bit about SodoCon. Why do you want people to come and experience it?
[31:48] Paul J. Daly: One of the best compliments I got for SodoCon was at the last event. A gentleman walked up to me that I didn't know — and one of the coolest parts was he didn't know who I was until he came to SodoCon. In my mind, that's the pinnacle. If someone comes and doesn't know who I am as the founder, I feel like the culture has won. He said to me: "A lot of people say they have a culture. This place actually has one." And he didn't get that from me — he got it from everybody else there.
[32:28] Paul J. Daly: The reason I want people to come is because we can say all we want that this is a different event — that people are open-handed from the beginning, that you don't have to put body armor on as a dealer and worry about getting bombarded by vendors scanning your badge. But you can never know it until you come.
[33:02] Paul J. Daly: When you step in, the whole mindset, the whole intentionality is different. You cannot accurately communicate it through a video or recorded sessions. It's like trying to take a picture of a landscape — you're always disappointed when you look at the photo. The camera cannot capture the feeling of being in that landscape. SodoCon is the landscape. Anybody who goes feels it immediately, and then gets to say, this is a cool town. I think I'd want to live here.
[33:40] Michael Cirillo: I didn't know it was okay to cry at an automotive event. But I'm crying, and so is everyone else in here. One last question. There are people out there thinking, I need to put the mechanics of this formula in place, but I don't even know what the formula is. How do they get in touch with you?
[34:09] Paul J. Daly: It's very simple. My email address is paul@morethancars.com. We've actually started to orient More Than Cars around the mission of helping as many people as possible do these things and communicate better. I think that's the future of marketing and brand — being able to create the media necessary to work it out and flesh it out. So reach out: paul@morethancars.com.
[34:33] Michael Cirillo: Let's go. All right buddy, love you. We'll see you at work later.
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