Ep. 650 - Remembering Jim “Alpha Dawg” Ziegler
In this special episode, I pay tribute to my friend and industry icon, Jim "The Alpha Dawg" Ziegler. If you’ve been in the car business for more than five minutes, you probably know his name—or at the very least, you’ve heard his unmistakable voice calling it like it is. Jim was one of a kind, and his impact on the industry, and on me personally, is something I won’t soon forget.
And because his words still carry weight today, I’m including a full replay of our last conversation on the podcast—a conversation that remains one of the most downloaded and listened-to episodes in The Dealer Playbook’s history.
Jim Ziegler left behind a legacy that stretches far beyond the automotive industry. His influence, his mentorship(because let’s be honest, Jim wasn’t afraid to say what needed to be said) and all that contributed to making this industry better.
Photos & Memories
I still remember the first time I met Jim over a decade ago at my very first automotive conference. I was just some unknown kid from Canada, completely wide-eyed, taking it all in. And then I heard the clanking of chains. I looked up to see this larger-than-life figure—black shirt, black ball cap that said Alpha Dawg, thick gold jewelry, and a presence that turned heads. My first thought? Who is this walking jewelry store?
It didn’t take long to realize that Jim was the guy everyone knew. He was the guy people wanted advice from. The guy people wanted selfies with. And somehow, within minutes, he made time for me. We took a photo together(check below)—and that moment marked the beginning of something special.
📸 The first time I met Jim
Years later, Jim and Miss Debbie invited me to go sightseeing with them in Boston. It felt like we were on a family road trip with Mom and Dad Ziegler—Jim cracking jokes, Miss Debbie keeping us in line, and the two of them singing along to Simply Irresistible in the front seat. At one point, Jim looked at my ring and said, Hey big guy, that’s quite the Alpha Dawg starter pack you got there! We laughed, we ate, we made memories—memories that mean even more today.
Jim wasn’t just a presence; he was a mentor, a supporter, and a force in this industry. He didn’t have to take me under his wing, introduce me to his network, or put me in front of his audiences—but he did. And those moments shaped my career in ways I’ll forever be grateful for.
Our thoughts are with his family, friends, and everyone who had the privilege of knowing him.
Thank you, Jim.
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Episode Transcript
MC: 0:13
Hey, auto industry, welcome to this special episode of the dealer playbook podcast, coming to you from a hotel room in a very unplanned session, but a very necessary one for those of you that are listening only and not watching while I'm sitting in a hotel room and I'm killing two birds with one stone, so forgive me if the audio isn't exactly studio quality, but this is a very timely episode that I wanted to get out this week, in particular, because I think it's appropriate to pay homage to somebody that has had an impact on me and on my career and helping me in some way achieve some of the things that I've achieved up to this point. Of course, I'm speaking of none other than Jim the Alpha Dawg Ziegler. At the time of recording this, march 4th 2025,. I've learned just over the weekend that Jim has passed, and learning of his passing has given me a moment of pause and reflection, thinking about some fun experiences that I've had with Jim, and I just thought it would be appropriate this week to share a tribute, a memorial of sorts, to him. For those of you that are OG listeners, you'll know I've had Jim on the podcast before and I think what I'd like to do on the tail end of whatever I have to say here in the beginning is replay the most recent podcast that we did together, because I think a lot of it is still applicable. But I wanted to express and share just a few thoughts about Jim that hopefully act as a stamp in a timeline that contributes, hopefully positively, to his legacy. Jim has left a legacy, there is no doubt about that. You'd have to be living under a rock with a blindfold on to not see the outpouring of appreciation and well wishes directed towards him and his wife, miss Debbie, who I'm grateful to know as well, and I thought I would just share some things that I've been thinking about and also to express appreciation for the impact that he's had on me.
MC: 2:36
I first met Jim believe it or not, I mean we're going back well over a decade at the very first conference I ever attended in automotive. I don't even remember the name of the event. Maybe it was AutoCon, probably AutoCon. This is the first time I had ever attended an event. I can't believe I was living under a rock, you know, out there in rural British Columbia, canada, not knowing that these types of events were going on all the time in America and here I was excited to be at this first event in Las Vegas. I couldn't believe I was in Las Vegas at an event. It was so exciting.
MC: 3:15
And I remember being in the breezeway of this event center and I hear the clanking of chains and I'm like, well, I have that. And I look and here comes this brute of a man black shirt, black jacket, black ball cap this is alpha dog on it, big thick gold chain, big thick gold bracelet, rings, gold rolex and I'm thinking, who is this walking jewelry store? I had never seen anything like this before. I'd never seen anybody like him before, and that was my first kind of sarcastic comment that I thought to myself who is this walking jewelry store? But it didn't take long for me to observe the number of people going hey, jim, hey, you know, hey. And then they would talk and they'd want to get a selfie, you know, and he would oblige them and, of course, make sure that it was a good picture. You got to make sure it's a good picture with Jim and people asking him for advice and he had obliged them with that and he would share with them advice and show genuine interest in them. And I'm like, okay, well, this is obviously somebody I need to know and, however it happened, I introduced myself to him. We end up getting a picture which I'll post in the show notes so you guys can see the very first, within minutes, of knowing each other.
MC: 4:41
The first picture that we took together at my first conference and I just remember, you know, being this no name that nobody had ever seen before trying to put myself out there, he didn't recognize me. I didn't know who he was just a few minutes earlier and the level of interest he took in me. You're from Canada, you know like yeah, and I, you know. I'm sure he had some funny witty joke to share about me being from Canada, but I thought that was really cool and I went home from that event thinking, man, this is awesome. Like people like this exist. I feel like this is somebody that I can look up to and learn from. And what have I been doing? Living under this rock and the sticks?
MC: 5:23
Fortunately enough, as time went on, he and I got to know each other and I can remember sometimes being out in British Columbia and rural British Columbia, feeling disconnected at times, feeling like I was so far out there I wasn't making enough money at the time to be able to go to all of the events, but seeing my peers on Facebook always going to different events and flying around and just jealous or FOMO or whatever. But then I'd look at the contacts on my phone and I'd see guys like Jim Ziegler and a few others in my phone and just even that simple thing for me of seeing them in my phone and being able to send them a text message made me feel connected in those moments, which had an impact, a very positive impact on me and keeping my head up, my chin up and look into the future and where I wanted to go. Getting to know him. What I learned is that he's a big goofball and we resonated with each other on that level because I'm a goofball and we'd love to joke with each other and laugh together and he'd love to share stories about you know his career and working in the radio and how he met Miss Debbie and his career in car sales and eventually building his training company and so on. And I was just I remember being a young buck and just being so inspired by him. Now you'd share all those stories and I'm not going to lie, there were people who probably took it the wrong way and were like man, this guy does not stop talking about himself. But what I think I realized is that it always somehow, like, ended with an encouragement. And I realized the language that Jim was speaking with me was almost like hey, if I was able to do these things, you can too. And I'll say this about Jim I think he probably saw something in me before I could see something in myself.
MC: 7:21
And while he was such an influential character and I use that word very strategically, because he's quite the character, his influence and his reach and the, the ears that he was able to bend he could have so easily snubbed out a no-name young buck, ambitious, loud talker like me. He could have been like you know what, we don't need any more opinions. I've got enough opinions for all of us and mine are probably much more accurate than yours. We don't need more opinions. We don't need new young guys like you trying to figure it out as you go. But he didn't do that. He didn't do that. Instead, he opened his arms. He welcomed me in. He said come on in, big guy. You know you call me big guy.
MC: 8:15
He put me in front of his audiences at his events, his battle plans and whatnot. He brought me on his webinars. He took interest in my companies and offered advice and wanted to connect me to his network. He brought me on his lives and his podcasts. And he didn't have to, but he did, and I would be lying if I didn't admit that those moments would be lying if I didn't admit that those moments, those experiences, have helped shape what I've been able to accomplish. I don't want to send a mixed message here. It's not like he and I talked every week. There are definitely people that he had much deeper relationships with. However, like I said, I'd be lying if I didn't admit that he's had an impact on me, and what's so cool to observe is the impact that he's had across this industry, not just in America but around the world. A testament to that is that when I had him on my podcast, to this day, years later, his episode with me his most recent one continues to be one of the most downloaded, most viewed episodes in the history of our podcast, and with hundreds of thousands of downloads and views, of thousands of downloads and views, even to this day, years and years later. An occasional comment will make it through on the YouTube video or I'll get a message from somewhere in the world of someone saying, hey, that was a great episode with Jim Ziegler and that's been really helpful for me all these years later. And I share that with you because when impact is that far reaching and that long lasting, it equates to the word that's been used a lot this week as we memorialize and we tribute, share our tributes to him, which is legacy.
MC: 10:20
Jim has left behind a tremendous legacy. Jim has left behind a tremendous legacy. He was a controversial person, not in a conspiracy theory type way, but in the way that he wasn't afraid to hold our industry and the people in it accountable, and he would do so publicly. And that probably rubbed some people the wrong way and caused some rifts and this and that, but at the end of the day he cared about the dealer body and he cared about the vendors and he cared about our industry and encouraged many, myself included, to be the best that we could possibly be, and for that I'm grateful. We'll never forget an experience that myself and Robert Wiseman had in Boston.
MC: 11:07
Jim and Miss Debbie invited us to go sightseeing with them and of course I wasn't going to pass that up. I was still kind of like in awe that. I'm like this guy knows my name, like somebody of this stature knows my name and now he's inviting us to come out. He could have just gone sightseeing by himself with his wife. He's inviting us out to go sightseeing and I'm like heck, yeah. So now here, robert and I, find ourselves sitting in the back of this rental vehicle with ma and pa ziggler in the front seat. That's how we felt. We felt like the rear, you know. Hey, guy, make sure you buckle up now. Hey, you know, I was like well, it felt like we were out with mom and dad and we're touring around Boston and it was so fun, you know, we got into the car, the radio turned on and I don't even remember what the song is called, but it's like simply irresistible, that song and it's on. But it's like simply irresistible, that song and it's on. And I remember dying, laughing in the back seat, as as Jim and miss Debbie are in the front seat, kind of like dancing and singing to that song, you know, and it was just such a fun day.
MC: 12:20
I remember we stopped to eat at this market. I don't even remember. It's some sort of big open market with restaurants and you can buy food and souvenirs and all those sorts of things. We're sitting down and I've always been one to wear a ring. I, like you know maybe it's the Italian in me I like a good watch, I like a ring and I remember sitting at the table in this marketplace and he looks down, he peers down and he notices that I'm wearing a ring. I wear this ring. For those of you that are listening, it's a family, it's the cerrillo family crest. You probably know. Maybe that's a decent shot of it, and I wasn't wearing this at the time, I was wearing some other ring. He looks down and he goes hey, big guy, that's quite the alpha dog starter pack. You got on there Like he cause, cause. I mean, he's a lock and jewelry store and we laughed about it and it was fun. And you know now that I'm thinking about it in this moment, I'm like this ring is probably too big for the size of my hand and maybe in some way the size of this ring was influenced by Jim. He wore big jewelry.
MC: 13:35
Just a few months ago Jim called me and it was right around the time that he made the announcement that his cancer was back this time in the brain and I think we both knew on that call that this might be the last time that we talked to each other, and what I thought was so interesting, he shared some of the things that he had shared with me before some of his past life experiences, the things that he had shared with me before some of his past life experiences. He shared with me the news that the cancer was back and that it didn't look good. He shared with me that he was at peace, that he wasn't afraid to die, that he knew he was going to be with God, and he reminded me of the encouragements that he had given me, expressed his pride. He let me know he was proud of me. He's been watching me and he's let me know how proud he is of me, that I've gone on to do some big things, and also took it as an opportunity to hold me accountable, to ask me why I have not yet joined the National Speaker Association, and that I really should, because he just saw that I could do some great things with that association. And so I'm sure, jim I know you're tuning in from the other side I'm sure at some point I will join that organization and I know that it will obviously be as a result of the encouragement you gave me, and so he encouraged me to do that on that call, and that was it, and then we said goodbye and after that, you know, in the weeks that passed, we exchanged a couple of direct messages on Facebook, and, and then here we are today.
MC: 15:31
He's now passed. He's left behind a great legacy. He's had a now written in the corridors of this era in the automotive industry and in the hearts of those that he's touched appropriate way. I know how to end this before we go into his episode, is simply with these three words thank you, jim. All right, we are so excited to be sitting down with the man himself, the alpha dog, jim ziggler. Jim, thank you so much for being with us today I wouldn't miss it for anything you know what it's.
MC: 16:33
We're extremely grateful. I'm speaking for robert and myself to just Jim Ziegler. Jim, thank you so much for being with us today. I wouldn't miss it for anything. You know what. We're extremely grateful. I'm speaking for Robert and myself to just have you as a friend. It was so fun a few weeks back being with you and Debbie in Boston and touring around and just enjoying your company and hearing so many stories. We were just talking about how, if there's one guy on the call right now that has more mic experience than us and whoever else is podcasting combined, it's the alpha dog.
Jim: 16:58
Oh golly. I was on radio most of my adult life before I got in the car business.
MC: 17:02
And then, once you left radio, went into the car business, you went on to become a record holding F&I expert.
Jim: 17:10
Well, yeah, some of the records I have still stand. Some of them have been long since broken, but at the time I held those records per retail unit. I was in the first dealership in the United States to do a million dollars in one month in finance 1984.
Robert: 17:27
What kind of volume dog is somewhere, a place like that, doing that? Like you know, unit count, that's doing a million just in finance.
Jim: 17:35
Well, that was dire and dire Volvo in the day and it's kind of interesting to believe a Volvo dealership would be the first dealership in the country to hit the million dollar mark. But we did, and I wasn't in charge, I wasn't the department head, I was one of the managers, but there were five extremely talented managers. I was one of the managers, but there were five extremely talented managers. It was May of 84. We had a million seventy three thousand Richard Dyer. That place was Camelot. We took that dealership from 40 units a month to eight hundred and fifty units a month in a year.
MC: 18:05
Oh smokes. Ok, so this is perfect because you know, like we said, and for those listening in, they know we haven't had an F&I show yet and we couldn't think of anybody better to dig into this topic than you. Let me ask you, when it comes to finance and insurance, and you taking this dealership from 40 units to 800 some odd units, what were some of the? Can you give us an idea of some of the processes that you put into place to achieve that?
Jim: 18:34
The idea that you can get deals bought is more important than your skill at selling to the customer. It's more important to be able to talk the banks into financing these people with the least conditions and the most wide open financing. That was my talent. That's what I did best in my retail experience. I invented something called the consumer counseling interviewer.
Jim: 18:57
I believe if and I still teach at my F&I schools I want the F&I manager to get in front of the distressed credit customer early. What I see in dealerships today is that they work these deals to death, even after they've identified these people have poor credit. Why do you keep negotiating with somebody? Once you realize they've got poor credit, they continue to throw discounts and negotiate with them. No, I want the finance manager and I call him the financial manager. I don't want to be called the business manager. I met the business manager in these dealerships.
Jim: 19:30
That's a man or a woman in the back office with a bad disposition. I'm not the business manager, you know, I'm the financial manager. That sounds like Merrill Lynch or something. You know. I mean power. Props are important and the ability to get in front of the customer and to do the consumer credit counseling interview, because it's all about feelings. Jackie Cooper was a friend of mine. Jackie said, Jim, it's about feelings, and if you can explain to people why the rate's higher, why we'd like them to buy these protection options, you're much better off.
MC: 20:07
What was the process for getting somebody into this credit or consumer credit council interview? I mean, was it Okay? You just kind of. They came in the door, they piqued their interest, they were intrigued and you said, hey, I've got some questions for you. How did you lead into this?
Robert: 20:23
Is this after the workshop? I'm sorry, Jim, Is this after? Like they've they agreed to some terms and submitted you know?
Jim: 20:36
No, this is before they buy the car or after they bought that. Whenever we identify a bad credit, whatever stage of the process, the sales manager says oh, we got really bad credit here, or even marginally bad credit. I want the sales department to stop the deal. I will go to the salesperson's office. Hi folks, my name is Jim Ziegler. I'm general financial manager here at the dealership and I see you're buying an automobile, and from these folks.
Jim: 21:00
I never want the F&I manager to act like you're part of the sales department. I see you're buying a car from these folks and I just stop by while you're working out the deal to find out how do you intend to pay for the car You're going to be financing with my sources? Do you intend to bring a check in from your own bank, your own credit union? Are you going to pay cash? Oh no, we're going to use your sources. Fantastic, I'm glad to have your business and I've got your credit report right here and I'd like to ask you a couple of questions about your credit before I make a decision on the approval of your loan. Keeping control, but did you hear that last sentence before I make a decision on the approval of your loan. Yeah, so many F&I managers. Well, we'll see if I can get Ford credit to approve it. Now. You gave away all your power.
MC: 21:49
Yeah, I love that.
Jim: 21:51
I approve the loan and I don't know about Canada, but in the US the lender and the dealer are one and the same. On the contract it's a holder in due course document. So technically I am the lender as the dealer until I get a bank to buy that existing loan from me. So technically I do approve the loan based on the knowledge that I have a lender I can sell it to. So when I tell them I approve the loan and I tell the people listen, I'm approving your loan. I want to tell you that in advance, but I'm not the final decision maker. My associates at Ally Financial can still turn you down. They can overrule me. I'm not the final decision maker. My associates at Ally Financial can still turn you down. They can overrule me. I'm not the final decision maker, I'm approving this loan. And that puts the consumer squarely in my corner. Oh, he's approving the loan, but he's got to get it past his associates at Ally, my associates at Ford Credit.
Jim: 22:52
See, word tracking is why my course is so different. The words you say to the customer are your toolbox, and I have invented these very unique word tracks that are not taught in any other F&I school, and the results my people are getting are incredible. So that's the consumer credit counseling interview, michael and Robert, is for two things. Number one, to get information to get the deal approved, because I'm going to end up on the telephone with a lender, even though I submit it through dealer track or one of the services, I'm going to end up probably getting a condition or a turndown and I'm going to end up on a telephone talking to the credit supervisor at Ally or Ford Credit or whatever Chrysler. So when I'm on the phone with the supervisor, I need ammunition, I need justification, extenuating circumstances, I need some type of an argument to build up why this loan should be approved. I'm getting that from the consumer and then I'm looking for other credit they have that's not in the bureau. So that's what this interview's about.
Jim: 23:57
But the other part of it is positive intimidation. Now that sounds like a double negative. Yeah, okay, you can intimidate somebody without scaring them or humiliating them. You can intimidate somebody without scaring them or humiliating them Because today, you know, we used to call people with distressed credit bad names Bogues, dregs, roaches, credit criminals get me done bandits. We're trying to be a little more socially acceptable.
Jim: 24:24
Nowadays these people are credit challenged, equity impaired. You know trying to put a little positive. Well, one thing about people with distressed credit they know who they are. They've received mail about it. They've seen tow trucks skulking around their driveways. They know who they are. You know not a big secret to them. They've got poor credit, so you know. But today we have BWA's and bogus with attitudes Yep, yep, yep. I mean they used to be humble and have a little humility. Now they think it's a constitutional right not to pay your bills and get another loan. So you have to take that attitude off of them. And that's where the positive intimidation comes in. I'm approving your loan. Behave yourself. I didn't buy all that stuff you didn't pay for. You know, it was not my fault. And the credit interview pretty well establishes that. There's four things that the lender's looking for. They all start with a, c. They're looking for capacity, collateral creditability and character. And you've got to build those things when you're in this interview. I've got to find reasons that this loan should be approved.
MC: 25:36
So this could really be a massive gateway for dealerships to sell more vehicles, because this credit counseling interview helps them identify how qualified. You know, not just from a financial position but from just you know, just from various avenues, how qualified that individual is to own that vehicle and how reliable they'll be in paying the bill and all those sorts of things. So it's really like you said, it's positive intimidation, which I love, but it's also you keeping control of this and not handing over any amount of control to the consumer.
Jim: 26:14
When I say I approve the loan, they sit up and pay attention.
MC: 26:18
They're all of a sudden on your side.
Jim: 26:20
Exactly. And I say I'm approving your loan, but I still have to review my approval with my associates at the bank. Who could overrule me? I'm not the final decision maker. Help me to help you. It's a whole philosophy that goes with it. It's incredible how well this works. What did they say during the interview? Well, I had a repossession because I was in the hospital. Oh, I understand. Do I have your permission to tell my associates at the bank you'll be purchasing credit insurance to protect this investment. Oh, my car kept breaking down. Oh, I understand. Do I have your permission to tell my associates at the bank you'll be purchasing a service agreement to protect this vehicle? Well, do I have to take that? No, sir, it is not required, it's not mandatory, but I strongly suggest you take it. You see, I'm never going to lie, cheat, sneak or deceive to sell finance. There's a line and I will walk right up to it, but I will never step over it.
MC: 27:18
Right, well, and I mean you know the way you're wording. I mean your word tracks position you from a point where I mean I don't know about you, robert, but I don't get the impression that you're walking close to the line. You're just maintaining control over the conversation and helping them, in a much more positive way, understand the status of their situation. It's like hey, you know you have bad credit for legitimate reason. You know that you didn't pay bills or you didn't whatever. You neglected to pay bills. You have really poor credit for whatever the reason is, but you're trying to buy a 40,000 or a $50,000 vehicle.
MC: 27:54
This method kind of puts the dealer back in the driver's seat where, like you said, they're not having to feel the need to slash prices and offer discounts. And let me see what can be done, or let me see if this will work or if I can get you approved. You stay in the driver's seat, you manage the conversation, but in a way that dispels the grubby car guy myth, which is that we're against you and we're just trying to take you. It's like no, we're legitimately trying to educate you and we're doing that from a position of power.
Jim: 28:23
Well see, that's the thing. Everything about F&I is a power posture the way your office looks, the way you dress. When I'm in a dealership and I'm doing F&I, I am always suited up. I mean, I'm wearing a tie, a suit and I don't care if the rest of the dealership's wearing polo shirts and shorts. I am not one of them, I am a banker. Bankers do not wear polo shirts, if you can follow. I want to be different than the sales department. I want to be totally divorced from who they are. I'm not one of them, I'm something else. And that when they come in my office there's no other paperwork of visible. They can't. You know, my office looks like a banker's office Very important. It doesn't look like some third rate clerk with papers stacked up everywhere. And when you get a loan from a bank you don't see another customer's loan sitting on the table, right, you know. You look at some of the dealerships. They put the F&I people in the worst, dingiest, dark ass dungeon in the world. I'm going to quit it.
Jim: 29:28
When I went to Banner Ford in Decatur, georgia, my first big F&I job back in the 80s, I was dating my wife. Then we hadn't gotten married yet and I was promoted to F&I manager and I went in that office and I couldn't believe. And so her and I went in there on a Sunday and it had this black paneling on the wall with staples in the paneling where the guy had stapled stuff up, a little piece of paper hanging out the staples and there was a beam over the desk and he had all these race sheets stapled on the beam where the customer could see it and one of one leg of the desk was bricks and the computer was filthy with finger grease and the phone had ear smudge on it. You know, I got going that off. Oh, and we had shag carpeting and they smoked inside the building in those days I go in that office. Oh, and we had shag carpeting and they smoked inside the building in those days.
Jim: 30:19
And I'm going what? Oh man, dingy, dark dungeon. Well, the owner, brad Greer, came in on a Monday and he did a double take when he walked by the office Because that brown black ugly paneling was in the dumpster and she and I had wallpapered the office and my carpet on the floor, my desk, my blonde desk and my blonde cabinetry behind it and living room type lighting, a sofa and comfortable chairs for the consumer. I had wall hanging paintings on the wall. He couldn't believe it. He was so embarrassed he had to remodel his own office.
MC: 30:56
So there's the aspect of maintaining control from the conversational standpoint, but also conditioning their what do you want to call it like emotional response by changing the atmosphere of your office?
Jim: 31:12
Everything in my life is power posture. You know it's powerful, it's intense, Everything about it. You know I set up the atmosphere. When a customer comes in, I give the husband a pen. I give the wife a pen Because I don't want them locking eyes when we're signing documents. The show's up front here, yes, and I do a menu presentation and I do a menu presentation and I have some word tracks that are just incredible in the F&I schools that I do, Like one of the things F&I people bump into.
Jim: 31:45
Robert, you've probably seen this any number of times. Oh, I don't want any of that stuff. I know you're selling stuff here. I don't want any of that. My answer to that is no problem, sir, but I am required by law to explain the coverages to you because you're going to have to sign waivers, releases and hold harmless agreements on those items that you decline and agree to self-insure. Self-insure scares the hell out of them. When I tell them, people go I'm self-insuring. Oh, absolutely. You know, an automobile is 15,000 high-tech component parts and you're self-insuring on all of that if you don't get the parts and labor agreement.
MC: 32:28
Okay. So let me ask you this when you go into a dealership and you know they've brought you on to, I guess, fix things or set up process and protocols to help them take their business to the next level, what are the demands? I know you mentioned that the first thing that you have to absolutely have I think we were talking about this in Boston is you need the ability to fire people. Does that mean you're going into the dealership to make big changes when they're needed?
Jim: 32:57
Well, not really, and I don't need the ability to fire people. I need the ability for the dealer to be willing to fire people. Got it? You follow what I'm saying. I need to have authority and I'll have managers some, and usually I don't have that problem. Very seldom the managers are usually totally on board with me. Generally, it's the sales persons that rebel against the processes. The managers welcome it because they see the profitability. But once in a while I have managers. Well, this is the way we like to do it. Well, you don't think they brought me here because you're doing a good job.
MC: 33:36
No doubt. And what are?
Robert: 33:47
some of the, I guess, standard kind of typical issues that you see when you go into dealerships In regards to finance.
MC: 33:50
Yeah, just in regards to what we're talking about, when you go into a dealership and you're there to fix their F and I process, help them, you know, improve what they're doing. What, what's what are you just kind of seeing across the board as something that just kind of each dealership has in common that they could do right now to to improve.
Robert: 34:04
And on top, to add to that, jim, the role of the finance.
Jim: 34:10
Well, you're almost answering the question, yeah.
Robert: 34:14
Because I think a lot of times that I've seen that, that sometimes they play their roles. Sometimes I feel like the. I've seen where the desk manager actually is submitting for approvals and you know the one calling the bank, and then in the end, the you know the F&I guy. He's just pretty much spinning paperwork and at, you know, selling product. Well, see, that's not the right structure, right.
Jim: 34:38
That's wrong. First of all, the F&I manager has more skills, more schools, more specialized training than anybody in the dealership, except the technicians at Fix-A-Cars. Most sales managers learn their job by watching their predecessor who was fired. Yeah, fair enough, I've got one of the very few sales manager schools out there. There's dozens of F&I schools and we are the highest per square inch profit center in the dealership and most sales managers are eating the last brown shriveled leaves off the trees before they're sucked down in the tar pits. Most customers today are buying cars based on finance, not based on price. The payment is more important than the trade value or the price. So, to answer your question, michael, 99% of the time the sales management is dominating the F&I management. The sales management is dominating the F&I management.
Jim: 35:38
And if I were to buy the dealership right now, I would tell you all my managers would have equal power, including the ability to terminate a salesperson. And I've had people say well, my F&I manager couldn't handle that. Well then, why did you hire a wimp? Excuse me, we're a profit center, we're not clerks. You're not the sales manager's secretary. You're certainly not answerable to salespersons. You are a manager, and manager is a position of dignity, authority and respect, not be the sales manager's secretary or clerk for the sales manager. I've been to more schools, more skills. No, I won't put up with that. And if I'm a dealer, I'm going to have a general sales manager and below that level it's just going to be managers, all with equal authority and responsibility.
Robert: 36:27
Now I think I might've gotten this from you. I believe in some of your training previously when I was still in the dealership and I would always do my introduction to the finance director or whomever as like this is like the top guy in the dealership. This right, you know Mr and Mrs Customer here's. You know Sam, he's the director of finance here. It's number one top guy here in the store. What is the? You know what's the proper turnover. You know like when introducing to finance and then also like how important is the salesperson kind of prepping, or you know getting or talking about the products, like should the salesperson be discussing and backing up any of the products that he's about to? You know they're about to embark on once they go in into the F&I office. I don't want them to, you don't want them to.
Jim: 37:20
I don't want them to even mention the existence of the products. They're not prepared to sell them, because the consumer is going to say well, how much is that? Now, the salesperson are going to probably ballpark a figure and kind of well, I don't need that. And then they get in the F&I office and I start to present the products. Look, I already told that other guy, I don't want that and so you're selling against that.
MC: 37:40
It increases your margin of error.
Jim: 37:42
Exactly. And, by the way, robert, I've probably already met these people. I tell F&I managers to meet the customer on the floor. Do not meet them for the first time in combat.
Robert: 37:53
Okay, and then what's the best? How do you suggest?
Jim: 37:56
that I go out there and I said hi, are you, Mr and Mrs Jenkins, Hi, I'm Jim Ziegler. I'm general financial manager here at the dealership. I'll be processing all your legal paperwork, making all your financial disclosures and signing waivers and releases, and hold harmless documents on items that you reject and agree to self-insure. It's going to take about 45 minutes. I'll have you in there in just a moment. So I've already answered all their questions.
Jim: 38:21
I tell F&I managers to have a one long winded sentence like that, Because the customer has three questions who are you? What are we going to do? How long is this going to take? So I answer all three of those questions in one sentence who am I? What am I going to do? How long is this going to take? So now they have no more questions and I'll have you in there in just a moment and by that time all the salesperson say hey, this Mr Ziegler, a financial manager. You met him earlier and very seldom do I ever have a customer in my office that I didn't come out and meet first. That does happen and I want a very short introduction if they haven't met me. This is Mr Ziegler, he's our financial manager. He'll make all your legal disclosures and show you all your financial options. Bam gone.
Robert: 39:10
Thank you, mr Alpha Dawg, we appreciate it.
MC: 39:13
Take care guys. Hey, thanks for listening to the Dealer Playbook Podcast. If you enjoyed tuning in, please subscribe, share and hit that like button. You can also join us and the DPB community on social media. Check back next week for a new Dealer Playbook episode. Thanks so much for joining.
